Playing the fretless bass

[Beedster]

54 minutes ago, Bagman said:

It was Blue Murder!!!

 

...and on reflection I suspect technically incorrect, although I can't face watching it again to scrutinise further. But surely while had had be been comparing fretless with fretted his point would be valid, but I very much doubt that given the slight 'finding' of the correct pitch plus vibrato no matter how slight, there would be any noticeable audible and even measured difference between lined and unlined intonation on the notes in question.

 

Unless you were specifically trying to demonstrate one in a YT piece of course.........  

[JPJ]

I think the point of the video was ‘trust your ears’. I must confess having played unlined fretless for close to 43 years I prefer unlined to lined. I have a couple of defretted basses where the fret slots have been filled with near matching wood but I still find them distracting. 

[Beedster]

3 minutes ago, JPJ said:

I think the point of the video was ‘trust your ears’. I must confess having played unlined fretless for close to 43 years I prefer unlined to lined. I have a couple of defretted basses where the fret slots have been filled with near matching wood but I still find them distracting. 

 

Agreed 👍

[SimonK]

I've only ever played an unlined fretless and really like the big expanse of smooth wood to slide around and find the notes - I do use the dots on the top of the neck as a rough guide, but I think lines would just take away a bit of the freedom that a fretless neck gives!

[SimonK]

Oh bollocks - just finally managed to watch the Tony Franklin video above, which took me down the rabbit hole of "Equal Temperament" tuning systems vs "Just Intonation"! I think the best explanation is from Jacob Collier, which is a perfect vindication for playing fretless and ignoring the tuner (which in Jacob language: "inspires more endorphins in the body"!):

 

 

[Beedster]

On 13/03/2025 at 13:39, SimonK said:

and really like the big expanse of smooth wood to slide around and find the notes

 

Nicely put, I often feel that fretlines are to all intents shouting 'Hey, we're the notes, don't you go anywhere else....."  

[Burns-bass]

22 hours ago, SimonK said:

Oh bollocks - just finally managed to watch the Tony Franklin video above, which took me down the rabbit hole of "Equal Temperament" tuning systems vs "Just Intonation"! I think the best explanation is from Jacob Collier, which is a perfect vindication for playing fretless and ignoring the tuner (which in Jacob language: "inspires more endorphins in the body"!):

 

 

I think all this stuff matters to those with a preternatural musical ability and senses like Jacob, but for 99.9% of us, it’s irrelevant.

[Beedster]

1 hour ago, Burns-bass said:

I think all this stuff matters to those with a preternatural musical ability and senses like Jacob, but for 99.9% of us, it’s irrelevant.

Completely agree 👍

[Wombat]

As low as 99.9%?

[SimonK]

2 hours ago, Wombat said:

As low as 99.9%?

 

Clearly I wouldn't compare myself to Jacob Collier, but the major/minor third things is spot on for me - indeed I used to be a bit annoyed with myself when looking at the tuner to see I was flat/sharp on some of these, but since watching things like the above I feel a bit more confident trusting my ears over the tuner, now that I know that for some intervals the tuner will be a fraction out!

 

I think I'd challenge anyone else with a fretless just to try this as once you know about it, it is noticeable even if you are not Jacob Collier!

[Wombat]

I don’t think I have perfect ears but I think you do this ‘naturally’, especially on an unlined fretless. The only way of ‘knowing’ what note you are playing is to hear it? And I think we naturally stick with what sounds good.

Indeed, on a fretted I sometimes feel myself ‘hooking’ notes to slightly sharpen them then realise the bass has gone out of tune.

For me the vids have explained ’why’ I do certain things but I haven’t really thought much about why I think that. If that makes sense! 😂.

[Stub Mandrel]

14 minutes ago, SimonK said:

 

Clearly I wouldn't compare myself to Jacob Collier, but the major/minor third things is spot on for me - indeed I used to be a bit annoyed with myself when looking at the tuner to see I was flat/sharp on some of these, but since watching things like the above I feel a bit more confident trusting my ears over the tuner, now that I know that for some intervals the tuner will be a fraction out!

 

I think I'd challenge anyone else with a fretless just to try this as once you know about it, it is noticeable even if you are not Jacob Collier!

 

This even for me!

[Stub Mandrel]

Just now, Wombat said:

notes to slightly sharpen them then realise the bass has gone out of tune.

 

I sometimes do this to play to a recording.

[bass_dinger]

So, an update. 

 

I have spent the last 9 months playing only the fretless bass  - I decided to commit to the new instrument. 

 

I found that they need to be perfectly in tune - an out-of-tune string confuses me and I  struggle to adjust.

 

Earlier this week, I took the bass for a second setup - less relief and more mwah. 

 

I will be learning how to incorporate the mwah into my playing, and have got my chorus pedals out, so that I can get used to the sound of the effects pedals.  Yummy!

[SimonK]

5 minutes ago, bass_dinger said:

 

I found that they need to be perfectly in tune - an out-of-tune string confuses me and I  struggle to adjust.

 

 

Is it lined? I have a non-lined fretless and find I can tolerate fairly out of tune strings without a problem so long as I don't play the open note!

[bass_dinger]

9 minutes ago, SimonK said:

 

Is it lined? I have a non-lined fretless and find I can tolerate fairly out of tune strings without a problem so long as I don't play the open note!

Edge-lined. So, lines under the B string, but not under the E to G strings - I have got used to where the correct note is on the string, and mis-tuned bass messes with my muscle memory. 

 

Here on the latter pages  

 

Edited 2 hours ago by bass_dinger

[SimonK]

3 minutes ago, bass_dinger said:

Edge-lined. So, lines under the B string, but not under the E to G strings.

 

Here  https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/482588-new-bass-day-2-washburn-xb925/#findComment-5405530

 

 

When I first got my fretless many years ago I was quite worried about my intonation, but over time have learned to just trust my ears and also slightly slide up to each note (also helps getting the mwah). As an upshot as long as each string is within a couple percent I often don't even bother tuning, albeit do have an always on tuner on the floor and do occasionally glance at it for reassurance.