You get what you pay for

[OldGit]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='469252' date='Apr 22 2009, 07:55 AM']Aha! I'm quite new to passive basses and have been discovering the joy of the tone knob. Regarding the pickups, on most dual pickup basses the soloed front pickup is closest to the natural sound of the instrument, that sound you'd get if you could mic it up acoustically. The back pickup gives you a whole load more growl and punch courtesy of increased upper midrange content.

However when you use both pickups at once you don't get a halfway house between the front and back pickup sound, you get a totally different sound with a scooped out midrange. This is because the two pickups are most out of phase in the midrange so their output cancels there.

So I generally use the front pickup as my default sound, the back pickup as my more aggressive sound and both pickups together as my more subdued mellow sound (although it has a touch more growl and treble than the soloed neck pickup it's rather a sweet growl and the midrange is much more subdued without all that grunt and barck of the soloed neck pickup). Where I used to use overdrive I now just switch to the bridge pickup and dig in.

The further spaced your pickups are, the deeper and wider the midrange scoop will be with both on.

Alex[/quote]

Ah ! Thanks Alex. That explains a lot about me and Jazz Basses ....

[JPAC]

As a bass noob, I've found out that the QA passed sticker is meaningless. The one guitar that had the sticker was manufactured badly and the one that didn't was still faulty, both being the same Ibanez GSR200. It must take a certain amount of money to make a guitar and build it to a decent quality but what that cash value is I'm not sure. You could be lucky and get a good one or have a serious amount of time and effort getting a bad one put right. At the moment I'm still trying to sort out my first one but it might mean going to court to get my money back.

[karenon]

I am an old git, and probably absolutely set in my ways, but I very seldom is impressed with new, expensive and shiny amps. Twentyfive years ago, I bought a £100 Marshall 50w bass head, and it has served me faithfully ever since. I have had lots of different cabs, but mostly I have used my Marshall jubilee 2x12, with an old Musicman bass-port 1x15 with a Celestion Sidewinder speaker refit thrown in for added stature and low end if needed. In most places, I use a DI-box to the PA anyway, but I have tried different riggs (I admit to being a valve nut), and I would have had to fork out something like £1000-2000 (Norway is expensive) to approach the kind of manly rock sound that I really like. Funk and soul works fine too. I have tried SWRs, and like them very much, and of course the classic Ampegs. I find, however, that 15 inch speaker comboes are a waste of time, and chugg happily along with my cheap, dinosaur, bastard outfit: The Marshall, which was built in '72 or 73, and has been rewired and gets new tubes if it (mis)behaves, was painted white in the early eighties. A good bass, strong fingers, good enough rig and a sympathetic sound guy is mostly what one needs.

[attachment=24221:K_re_thor_tom_mini.jpg]

[OldGit]

[quote name='JPAC' post='469325' date='Apr 22 2009, 10:03 AM']As a bass noob, I've found out that the QA passed sticker is meaningless. The one guitar that had the sticker was manufactured badly and the one that didn't was still faulty, both being the same Ibanez GSR200. It must take a certain amount of money to make a guitar and build it to a decent quality but what that cash value is I'm not sure. You could be lucky and get a good one or have a serious amount of time and effort getting a bad one put right. At the moment I'm still trying to sort out my first one but it might mean going to court to get my money back.[/quote]


Sale of goods act 1979
"Key Facts:
• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

• Goods are of [b]satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory[/b], taking into account the price and any description."

Government info website (in understandable English)
[url="http://www.berr.gov.uk/whatwedo/consumers/fact-sheets/page38311.html"]Here[/url]

[Dr.Dave]

Moaning old git content follows........

Anyone here below the age of about 35 doesn't know what cheap tat gear is. When I started out if you didn't buy a Fender or a Ric the chances are it would be a plywood plank with a neck that would exhibit distinctly musatoid (look it up) behaviour in 6 months. Ray's were just coming in , Yamaha were making the only real effort from Japan and Mr Alembic was starting to make expensive boutique basses. Miserable sod that I am I don't count Gibson so other than what I've listed you got rubbish to an extent many of you wouldn't believe. How any of us older blokes managed to learn on some of the stuff we had I'll never know.

Bass amps - by and large - were bass versions of guitar amps with the only exeptions being high end stuff like Ampegs.

Now - you can buy a Jazz bass cheaply - maybe even one that says Fender on it - and gig/record/whatever with it. It's decent quality for a weeks wage.

Big names in bass amplification manufacture proper bass amps - GK , Ashdown , Trace etc and they are nothing like the cost a pro's amp would have cost you 30 years ago in terms of how many hours overtime it would take to buy one.

I buy the odd fancy bass because I can. I'm middle aged , no kids to support and I'd fall off a motorbike. If I had to I could gig quite happily with a Squier bass and a mid range combo that would cost me way less than 500 spots if I went with used gear - not much more new.

We do this thing to make music - not to sit back admiring our aquisitions. Joe punter in front of you doesn't know a vintage Fender bass from a Vintage brand bass - and more to the point doesn't give a sh*t. Neither does Mr Music Industry exec. , Mr Promoter or even Mr Producer. They care about interesting (saleable?) music and sounds - not what it costs to make them.

As with any tool - it pays in the long run to buy the best bass gear you can afford , esp if you've made a decision to take playing music seriously. It will give more control over sound and will last longer if looked after. (my own tip would be if money's tight - spend the majority on the bass and don't worry about the amp as long as it works)

But - I guarantee the lad or lass with the crap bass and rubbish amp who knows how to play it beats the clueless rich kid on every level , every time.


Edit - re. para 1 , last sentence.

That was a lie - I do know. We wanted to be musicians more than anything so we took what we could get/afford and made it work for us.

Edited April 22, 2009 by Dr.Dave

[OldGit]

[quote name='Dr.Dave' post='469485' date='Apr 22 2009, 12:17 PM']Moaning old git content follows........

Anyone here below the age of about 35 doesn't know what cheap tat gear is. When I started out if you didn't buy a Fender or a Ric the chances are it would be a plywood plank with a neck that would exhibit distinctly musatoid (look it up) behaviour in 6 months. Ray's were just coming in , Yamaha were making the only real effort from Japan and Mr Alembic was starting to make expensive boutique basses. Miserable sod that I am I don't count Gibson so other than what I've listed you got rubbish to an extent many of you wouldn't believe. How any of us older blokes managed to learn on some of the stuff we had I'll never know.

Bass amps - by and large - were bass versions of guitar amps with the only exeptions being high end stuff like Ampegs.

Now - you can buy a Jazz bass cheaply - maybe even one that says Fender on it - and gig/record/whatever with it. It's decent quality for a weeks wage.

Big names in bass amplification manufacture proper bass amps - GK , Ashdown , Trace etc and they are nothing like the cost a pro's amp would have cost you 30 years ago in terms of how many hours overtime it would take to buy one.

I buy the odd fancy bass because I can. I'm middle aged , no kids to support and I'd fall off a motorbike. If I had to I could gig quite happily with a Squier bass and a mid range combo that would cost me way less than 500 spots if I went with used gear - not much more new.

We do this thing to make music - not to sit back admiring our aquisitions. Joe punter in front of you doesn't know a vintage Fender bass from a Vintage brand bass - and more to the point doesn't give a sh*t. Neither does Mr Music Industry exec. , Mr Promoter or even Mr Producer. They care about interesting (saleable?) music and sounds - not what it costs to make them.

As with any tool - it pays in the long run to buy the best bass gear you can afford , esp if you've made a decision to take playing music seriously. It will give more control over sound and will last longer if looked after. (my own tip would be if money's tight - spend the majority on the bass and don't worry about the amp as long as it works)

But - I guarantee the lad or lass with the crap bass and rubbish amp who knows how to play it beats the clueless rich kid on every level , every time.


Edit - re. para 1 , last sentence.

That was a lie - I do know. We wanted to be musicians more than anything so we took what we could get/afford and made it work for us.[/quote]

+1 (apart from sitting back and admiring the wood grain - I do a fair amount of that too )

Listen to your doctor.....

[BassMunkee]

You can have all the gear in the world, but if you have no idea then all you'll is an expensive fart machine.
You don't need loads of expensive kit to be a good bassist or to have a good sound, you just need to know how to use what you have properly.
With apologies, I haven't read all of this thread - but I would never let e small thing like that stop me from pontificating!

[Ou7shined]

Firstly, beauty is in the [b]ear[/b] of the beholder.

There are guys out there that hear a good sound from cheap gear (and that goes for the majority of the public) that's all well and good but if your looking for "that" sound you have to diversify a bit more and when the options narrow the price goes up. My combined gear is in the "not too shabby" sector (and it makes me happy) but most of the gigs I do I use the farty old house backline and this doesn't bother me because at the end of the day I know that even if I took my gear to every gig chances are the sound guy would slaughter my sound anyway. In these situations it is an advantage to have a bass that has either a distinct sound or enough eq to rake you out of the sludge - there aren't many low end basses capable of doing that.

In my experience upgrading your gear exposes your technical inadequacies which in turn forces you to get better... and it's cheaper than lessons in the long run - win/win.

Edited April 22, 2009 by Ou7shined

[OldGit]

Anyone got a £200 kettle lead on their amp?
Just wondered

Edited April 22, 2009 by OldGit

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='OldGit' post='469696' date='Apr 22 2009, 04:10 PM']Anyone got a £200 kettle lead on their amp?
Just wondered [/quote]
[url="http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?pf_id=1540&src=froogle"]Here's[/url] a cheapo 85 quid job. Any good for you?

[OldGit]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='469704' date='Apr 22 2009, 04:20 PM'][url="http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?pf_id=1540&src=froogle"]Here's[/url] a cheapo 85 quid job. Any good for you? [/quote]


Make any significant difference?

Just after we got together my partner bought a pair of connector leads for her Hifi that cost more than my entire HiFi
It did sound massivly better than mine but I'm not sure the connects made that much difference ......

[Ou7shined]

Probably not.
My NAD system still has the original mains cables - I'm not convinced that this upgrade would make much diff. However decent interconnects really do make a difference - after you've splashed out on crazy speaker cable of course.

[OldGit]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='469729' date='Apr 22 2009, 04:40 PM']Probably not.
My NAD system still has the original mains cables - I'm not convinced that this upgrade would make much diff. However decent interconnects really do make a difference - after you've splashed out on crazy speaker cable of course.[/quote]


ha ha Then all you need to do is shut the kids up long enogh to actually sit and listen to something

[Ou7shined]

Yep, you got it.

[chris_b]

I think you [i]do[/i] get what you pay for.
Great gear won't ensure you a great sound but it will enable you get the best sound [i]you[/i] can get. Cheap gear will not usually get you a great sound and can limit your ability to get even a good sound.

[maxrossell]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the Kramer Focus 420S available in metallic black and candy-apple red, both with one-ply black pickguard:



I just spent a good hour trying out basses in my local store, all through an Ashdown Mag 300 with all the EQ at 12 o'clock.

Now I ain't saying that this bass owns everything else on all fronts, that would be foolish. It has an alder and nato ply body, it's relatively heavy, it's a P-Bass copy and some people aren't into that, it's got a thumb rest in exactly the right place to make it almost impossible to thumb-slap near the neck, and the bridge is total junk.

However, and this is the important bit, for £150 (in the store price, you can get it for less on the net), it blows the more expensive Squier Affinity P-Bass right out of the water on sound, components and playability. For my tastes, it actually sounded better than the MIM '59 Classic Fender P-Bass they had in there too, not to mention that the neck on that thing is horrible. It fairly trounces the Jim Deacons (which are apparently SX basses), and I liked the sound of it better than the sound of the 70s RI MIM Fender Jazz.

Sure, a Warwick Corvette Standard completely owned it. But at six times the price, you'd pretty well hope so. To be honest I didn't linger on the other modern basses because hey, it's a P-Bass.

So I'd change the bridge, and maybe the pots and all that stuff. I'd probably keep the pickups for a while, because I reckon I'd have to shell out some fair bank to get something noticeably better. So I reckon that I could get the Kramer, a new bridge, some new wiring and a nice tidy gig bag at internet prices for under £180 all in. And for that I'd have a Precision that I'd hold onto and wouldn't be even vaguely embarrassed to use in any situation. And crucially I'd recommend it to ANYONE who wanted a P-Bass and didn't give a sh*t about the brand name, and I'd expect them to thank me for it.

Make of that what you will.

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='469252' date='Apr 22 2009, 07:55 AM']Aha! I'm quite new to passive basses and have been discovering the joy of the tone knob. Regarding the pickups, on most dual pickup basses the soloed front pickup is closest to the natural sound of the instrument, that sound you'd get if you could mic it up acoustically. The back pickup gives you a whole load more growl and punch courtesy of increased upper midrange content.

However when you use both pickups at once you don't get a halfway house between the front and back pickup sound, you get a totally different sound with a scooped out midrange. This is because the two pickups are most out of phase in the midrange so their output cancels there.

So I generally use the front pickup as my default sound, the back pickup as my more aggressive sound and both pickups together as my more subdued mellow sound (although it has a touch more growl and treble than the soloed neck pickup it's rather a sweet growl and the midrange is much more subdued without all that grunt and barck of the soloed neck pickup). Where I used to use overdrive I now just switch to the bridge pickup and dig in.

The further spaced your pickups are, the deeper and wider the midrange scoop will be with both on.

Alex[/quote]

You are a veritable mine of sonic information sir, thank you

[Dr.Dave]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='469688' date='Apr 22 2009, 03:51 PM']Firstly, beauty is in the [b]ear[/b] of the beholder.[/quote]

Hallelujah , brother.

What's a 'good' sound? What's the 'best' gear?

If me and Linford Christie get down on the blocks and somebody shouts bang - 10 seconds later he'll be across the finish line having a non-dodgy cup of herbal tea and I'll still be 5 yds from the start having grown a third testicle and suffering a heart attack.

At sprinting - he's better than me. He's good , I'm not. We can measure it.

So - kind lads that you all are you organise a benefit concert for my funeral and one of you plays a Wal through a Boogie and one of you a Squier through a Carlsboro.

Which one sounds 'best'? Is one good and the other not? How do we know???? How do we measure it?

[alexclaber]

Many of the 'best' bass sounds are nasty - so shouldn't we use nasty gear to get them?

e.g. Step forward Dusty Hill with the trademark 'farting in a trash can' tone. Nice.

Alex

[waynepunkdude]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='469704' date='Apr 22 2009, 04:20 PM'][url="http://www.russandrews.com/product.asp?pf_id=1540&src=froogle"]Here's[/url] a cheapo 85 quid job. Any good for you? [/quote]


I could do one for half that price

[dlloyd]

I generally go through the PA using a Sansamp Bass Driver, and people generally go nuts over the sound I get out of it.

[vegas j]

I've just spent 68 pounds on a peavey 300 combo off of Ebay! Sounds good, and for that money id say its a bargain!

[mcnach]

[quote name='vegas j' timestamp='1352287147' post='1861027']
I've just spent 68 pounds on a peavey 300 combo off of Ebay! Sounds good, and for that money id say its a bargain!
[/quote]

I think the zombies agree with you