AM1 Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share Posted April 1, 2009 (edited) [quote name='alexclaber' post='451685' date='Apr 1 2009, 04:41 PM']Too smooth! Also if you're coming to funk from rock there is a wealth of fantasic late '60s/early '70s rock that straddles the funk/rock gap. Some deeply funk laden moments in Led Zeppelin and this particular favourite of mine from Black Sabbath - so dirty, so greasy and so dark: The shift from this to The Meters is not as far as you'd think - both the drummers and bass players have remarkably similar feels. And in more recent times RATM and even Korn have funked out, though from more of a hip hop perspective. Alex[/quote] It's not so much a case of going from one to the other, I've always loved both and was listening to Physical Graffiti and the uplift mofo party plan at the same time as a teenager. Geezer Butler is a great groove player. Check out Lady Evil. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYubFWq1_RQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYubFWq1_RQ[/url] Also, another player crossing the genre from funk to rock is Dennis Dunaway, he's a great melodic player but so was Prakash John, listen to Cold Ethyl and there's some real funk spin on the bass. Cheers AM Edited April 1, 2009 by AM1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='451685' date='Apr 1 2009, 04:41 PM']Too smooth! Also if you're coming to funk from rock there is a wealth of fantasic late '60s/early '70s rock that straddles the funk/rock gap. Some deeply funk laden moments in Led Zeppelin and this particular favourite of mine from Black Sabbath - so dirty, so greasy and so dark: The shift from this to The Meters is not as far as you'd think - both the drummers and bass players have remarkably similar feels. And in more recent times RATM and even Korn have funked out, though from more of a hip hop perspective. Alex[/quote] Indeed..... The Ocean by Zep is funktabulous Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='451685' date='Apr 1 2009, 04:41 PM']Too smooth! Also if you're coming to funk from rock there is a wealth of fantasic late '60s/early '70s rock that straddles the funk/rock gap. Some deeply funk laden moments in Led Zeppelin and this particular favourite of mine from Black Sabbath - so dirty, so greasy and so dark: The shift from this to The Meters is not as far as you'd think - both the drummers and bass players have remarkably similar feels. And in more recent times RATM and even Korn have funked out, though from more of a hip hop perspective.[/quote] Couldn't agree more about War Pigs! Also, if you want a funky punk bassist, apart from the obvious choice of Flea, check out some of Duff McKagan's lines a bit more closely. "It's So Easy" is seriously groovy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Paul Jackson Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share Posted April 1, 2009 (edited) Here's a bass cover of Cold Ethyl, MarloweDK had a seriously funky one but the fascists removed it! [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_R218cr5Bg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_R218cr5Bg[/url] Edited April 1, 2009 by AM1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 (edited) [quote name='AM1' post='451693' date='Apr 1 2009, 04:46 PM']It's not so much a case of going from one to the other, I've always loved both and was listening to Physical Graffiti and the uplift mofo party plan at the same time as a teenager. Geezer Butler is a great groove player. Check out Lady Evil.[/quote] Yes, he's certainly in the pocket there. But for me Black Sabbath is never quite right without the majestic Bill Ward on drums - so loose and wide and groovacious! And there lies the horror of drummers and funk - if they can't play funk then neither can you. It seems strange that this should be the case, when you listen to P-Funk about 75% of the time the beat is the standard rock pattern, but there's a subtle shift in feel required that completely transforms the vibe. If you've heard Faith No More's cover of War Pigs you can hear a fine example of how straightening out the feel totally defunks it. Alex Edited April 1, 2009 by alexclaber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 [quote name='The Funk' post='451701' date='Apr 1 2009, 04:51 PM']Couldn't agree more about War Pigs! Also, if you want a funky punk bassist, apart from the obvious choice of Flea, check out some of Duff McKagan's lines a bit more closely. "It's So Easy" is seriously groovy.[/quote] Yep, there's some great playing on Appetite - Mr Brownstone was an old favourite of mine. GnR had an amazing ability to have tons of guitar but playing off each other and really hitting the right accents - not many two guitar rock bands come close to that. This is what happens when all this rock and funk and metal (and reggae) seeps into a new tune: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=45018"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=45018[/url] Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share Posted April 1, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='451707' date='Apr 1 2009, 04:56 PM']Yes, he's certainly in the pocket there. But for me Black Sabbath is never quite right without the majestic Bill Ward on drums - so loose and wide and groovacious! And there lies the horror of drummers and funk - if they're can play funk then neither can you. It seems strange that this should be the case, when you listen to P-Funk about 75% of the time the beat is the standard rock pattern, but there's a subtle shift in feel required that completely transforms the vibe. If you've heard Faith No More's cover of War Pigs you can hear a fine example of how straightening out the feel totally defunks it. Alex[/quote] That's true but it would kill Faith No More's rock vibe if they tried to be funky. Tracks like A Small Victory or even digging the grave would NEVER work if funkified! Mike Patton's voice is too good for rock style to sing funk style anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 [quote name='AM1' post='451712' date='Apr 1 2009, 05:02 PM']That's true but it would kill Faith No More's rock vibe if they tried to be funky. Tracks like A Small Victory or even digging the grave would NEVER work if funkified! Mike Patton's voice is too good for rock style to sing funk style anyway.[/quote] Oh I totally agree. I just find that cover rather bizarre. I suppose my point in a round about way is that you shouldn't really play in a 'style', you should just be you. It all comes down to that elusive feel thing. I love musicians that really have an identity - Bonham, Bill Ward, Carlton Barrett, Billy Cobham. And of course Bill Melis, my rather fine if exceedingly grumpy and always rubbish in rehearsals but great under pressure drummer. If you don't have a B in your name then it just isn't going to happen on the drums. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 [quote name='lowdown' post='451692' date='Apr 1 2009, 04:46 PM']Might be worth AM checking out the great Paul Jackson as well...good finger style.[/quote] I'd almost go as far as to say the very best. One of my three biggest influences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='451672' date='Apr 1 2009, 04:29 PM']Sly Stone is generally a good starting place. "Everyday People" is open E 8th notes all the way through the song. d-dah-d-dah. Staccato-Legato etc. "Thank You (falletmebemiceelf)" is a dead simple thumpin' n' pluckin' thang. Larry Graham is great feel-wise because he generally lays it right down the middle of the beat, none of the weird Rocco topspin or George Porter Jr laying back. (Though check his overdubbed fuzz on "Dance to the Music" - he sits the fuzz line behind the beat but the clean line on the beat. Genius!) Alex[/quote] +1 Thats the place to start. Lost count of the number of times I've 'come up with the best middle 8 of all time' according to the rhythm guitarist, only to show him that all I'm playing is the du-duuuh-du-duuuh-du-duuuh-du-duuuh feel classic b-line. You swing that hard enough and anyone not dancing is officially dead from the groin down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share Posted April 1, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='451722' date='Apr 1 2009, 05:12 PM']Oh I totally agree. I just find that cover rather bizarre. I suppose my point in a round about way is that you shouldn't really play in a 'style', you should just be you. It all comes down to that elusive feel thing. I love musicians that really have an identity - Bonham, Bill Ward, Carlton Barrett, Billy Cobham. Alex[/quote] I agree. It's almost a musical "personality" - but that should not exclude learning/playing other styles. But yeah, I think everyone has a "definitive" style that they are more suited to/more drawn to than others. I asked a few bass tutors this question "What's your favourite style to play" and they all respond the same way, I'll play/teach any style you want. That does not work for me. If you are set on learning one style then it should be from a master of that style and someone who has pure passion for that style. A purist viewpoint maybe but that's how I feel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='451685' date='Apr 1 2009, 04:41 PM']The shift from this to The Meters is not as far as you'd think - both the drummers and bass players have remarkably similar feels. And in more recent times RATM and even Korn have funked out, though from more of a [b]hip hop[/b] perspective. Alex[/quote] Dont get me started on Doug Wimbish again Alex, its going to get really tedious soon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 [quote name='The Funk' post='451723' date='Apr 1 2009, 05:12 PM']I'd almost go as far as to say the very best. One of my three biggest influences.[/quote] "f*** fingerings, it's all in how you pull the strings!" Alex P.S. Not exactly where to start with playing funk! Buy the album (does anyone other than me still do that?) Herbie Hancock - Thrust. It stands alone, truly mindblowing and original funk jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='451731' date='Apr 1 2009, 05:18 PM']"f*** fingerings, it's all in how you pull the strings!"[/quote] What no fingerings! Back to knuckles then. Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 [quote name='lowdown' post='451702' date='Apr 1 2009, 04:52 PM']Paul Jackson Garry[/quote] Who is the drummer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 [quote name='AM1' post='451728' date='Apr 1 2009, 05:16 PM']I agree. It's almost a musical "personality" - but that should not exclude learning/playing other styles. But yeah, I think everyone has a "definitive" style that they are more suited to/more drawn to than others. I asked a few bass tutors this question "What's your favourite style to play" and they all respond the same way, I'll play/teach any style you want. That does not work for me. If you are set on learning one style then it should be from a master of that style and someone who has pure passion for that style. A purist viewpoint maybe but that's how I feel.[/quote] No, I completely agree. At some point I may have some lessons to get me playing jazz, though that'll be way in the future, am busy enough being a singing/writing/bandleading bassist and making the odd bass cab or ten whilst doing another fulltime job! There are an awful lot of bassists out there that think they can play funk and frankly haven't got a clue. The biggest giveaway is when you ask them to teach you funk and they show you how to slap - run away!!! I may sound bullish about this but I have a big inner afro and I'm not afraid to use it. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 [quote name='51m0n' post='451738' date='Apr 1 2009, 05:23 PM']Who is the drummer?[/quote] Mike Clark. Same as on Thrust. He and Paul Jackson grew up playing funk in the Bay Area scene along with LG, Bobby Vega and Rocco. The two of them are telepathic. Actual Proof was a first take! Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share Posted April 1, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='451740' date='Apr 1 2009, 05:23 PM']There are an awful lot of bassists out there that think they can play funk and frankly haven't got a clue. The biggest giveaway is when you ask them to teach you funk and they show you how to slap - run away!!![/quote] Indeed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Mike Clark is one of the best drummers ever. He was never rated as highly as some of the others of the fusion era - maybe he was too funky and not w*nky enough for then? As for the personality thing, that's what music is all about. That's why I'm not so sure about steering people clear of things that might seem advanced or dangerous. Put it where it feels good - that's my motto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AM1 Posted April 1, 2009 Author Share Posted April 1, 2009 [quote name='The Funk' post='451758' date='Apr 1 2009, 05:34 PM']As for the personality thing, that's what music is all about. That's why I'm not so sure about steering people clear of things that might seem advanced or dangerous. Put it where it feels good - that's my motto.[/quote] Damn right! Ain't no Funk Police gonna tell me what to play! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='451740' date='Apr 1 2009, 05:23 PM']No, I completely agree. At some point I may have some lessons to get me playing jazz, though that'll be way in the future, am busy enough being a singing/writing/bandleading bassist and making the odd bass cab or ten whilst doing another fulltime job! There are an awful lot of bassists out there that think they can play funk and frankly haven't got a clue. The biggest giveaway is when you ask them to teach you funk and they show you how to slap - run away!!! I may sound bullish about this but I have a big inner afro and I'm not afraid to use it. Alex[/quote] Funk does not need to be slap, but it can be slap; slap does not need to be funky, but it can be funky. If someone asks me to show them funk I refer them to Bootsy and the One....... It can and does go a long way from there, but thats my start point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Oh and believe Alex his 'fro is a scary mama 'fro and it will beatchoass! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 This thread should have had one reply right at the beginning. I don't know what I was thinking. "Ain't nothin' but a thang" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 [quote name='alexclaber' post='451740' date='Apr 1 2009, 05:23 PM']There are an awful lot of bassists out there that think they can play funk and frankly haven't got a clue. The biggest giveaway is when you ask them to teach you funk and they show you how to slap - run away!!! I may sound bullish about this but I have a big inner afro and I'm not afraid to use it. Alex[/quote] It's easy. Stand there with a bass in your hands and do nothing. Afterall, it's more about what you don't play than what you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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