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markdavid

When does it stop being constructive and become just being given orders of what to do?

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I was recently discussing a new song with one of our guitarists who had written and recorded a scratch demo of his creation with no bass - which is how they normally arrive. I actively wanted to know whether he had anything in mind for my part and his response was that I should just do my thing: "sometimes [...] you'll play it completely different to how I expected it, which sometimes at first may be 'wrong' for me, but when I actually listen... you're pretty much always right!". I was really happy with that as a vote of confidence. Don't get me wrong, I'd also have been happy if he'd told me he had an idea that he wanted me to try and factor in, but similarly I wouldn't expect such an idea to be more than a general notion of feel, and more normally a pointer to an existing song that exhibits that feel.

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16 hours ago, skankdelvar said:

Then I'd shag his missus and when he came home I'd tell him what I'd done and ask him which annoyed him more, the driveway thing or the missus thing.
 

I really hate it when people park across my drive! 😠

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If its covers then for me it should be three things that need to be covered, the vocals, the feel and the hooks. How you get to that is kind of up to the musicians and does not need to be an exact copy of the original note for note. If you take the song "My Girl" for example. As long as the bass riff on the intro and middle part is there, the guitar riff is there, the vocals are correct and it generally feels like the original in terms of tempo, groove style then that's good enough. The guitar, drums and bass don't need to be exact but as long as the basics are covered (vocals, feel and hooks) then that's all that matters.

I've attached our version of "My Girl" as an example. You can tell what song it is and its pretty close but there is no way any of us are playing it note for note like the original. I'm no James Jamerson on this but I'm playing as close as possible to what works.

My Girl.wav

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Guest oZZma
9 hours ago, Ed_S said:

I was recently discussing a new song with one of our guitarists who had written and recorded a scratch demo of his creation with no bass - which is how they normally arrive. I actively wanted to know whether he had anything in mind for my part and his response was that I should just do my thing: "sometimes [...] you'll play it completely different to how I expected it, which sometimes at first may be 'wrong' for me, but when I actually listen... you're pretty much always right!". I was really happy with that as a vote of confidence. Don't get me wrong, I'd also have been happy if he'd told me he had an idea that he wanted me to try and factor in, but similarly I wouldn't expect such an idea to be more than a general notion of feel, and more normally a pointer to an existing song that exhibits that feel.

This is pretty much what happens in my band.

I could never play with someone who is too proud or touchy, because if I feel something is not compelling, I say it without ceremony. And I tend to give corrections, and sometimes say precisely what to do, and how, including which cymbals to use etc. 

But only when my drummer doesn't come with his own proposal that works. I love that sometimes I had imagined the song with a certain type of drums pattern, and he comes with something TOTALLY different, and it feels so weird and "wrong" IN A GOOD WAY! ^_^

If I had written everything on my own without his contribution, the output would have been a lot more boring and predictable probably. Different influences are a big value IMO

 

21 hours ago, markdavid said:

 

I am not against other people giving input in a band situation and if they do and there idea is good then I will take it on board and use there idea and
have done a number of times in my current band but I am also a big believer that sometimes  you have to let band members use there own judgement and taste 
on what fits a song. Anyhow this prompted the question when does it stop being constructive and become just being given orders of what to do?
 

Fact is, democracy can't work in a band or any team work of any type. Someone has to have the final word and that's the band leader. This may mean that if your ideas don't work better than his, you'll be given orders. There's nothing wrong with that.

If BL is clever and really cares about the music, he will gladly at least TRY any good input from you. If he cares more about his ego, not much. In this case run run run away and never look back :laugh1:

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I make suggestions about dynamics or if someone plays a certain lick once but doesn't next time we play the song I might say "I miss that pinched harmonic in your solo, its awesome". I wouldn't say "take your solo up the board here, then add distortion, don't rock the wah so much" etc because then I'd be inviting a constant correction and critique of my bass interpretation of everything. I don't want to play identical to the original and I respect everyone else's rights to experiment with known songs to put their own spin on it. Such as our guitarist who decided to play the Sweet Child O' Mine intro in the breakdown of She Sells Sanctuary because for him the breakdown was b0llocks so he decided to play something else! 

It's like when my drummer goes "I don't want to play that it's just another four to the floor beat". To which my response is always "make it interesting then" 

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Nobody ever tells me what to play in my rock covers band. They just say: 'Yea thats great!'

Sometimes I wish they would. It would give me something to do!! 🤣

Edited by Hobbayne

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23 hours ago, markdavid said:

I came into the rehearsal 
with a specific idea of how i am going to play the song,

No one should come to first rehearsal with any specific ideas of how you are going to play the song. Unless someone has sat down and written out arrangements, the first play though is  to feel how a song goes with your individual’s abilities and styles.

After a few play throughs it should be obvious 1. Whether the song works. 2. What parts clash. 3. Which bits are empty and whether they need filling. 

Deciding on a fill, before you’ve even played a note is daft. 

So is deciding on a harmonic line when you’re just assuming that the guitarist will be playing what’s on the original recording. If you’re not, why should he be?

And people who can’t play bass showing me how to play a line on bass is always entertaining. I let them show me, say “That’s interesting”, mostly it’ll be an incoherent mess, then I do what I want.

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