"Chordal approach"

[thegummy]

I've seen a few interviews with Carole Kaye where she talks about it being much better to learn from a chordal approach instead of scales. I've heard similar things said elsewhere.

I don't understand this though. Chords are made from scales. It can't mean to only play root, 3rd, 5th because loads of basslines use other notes.

Can anyone explain what this means?

[M@23]

I'll go and watch a few videos and see what she says.

My take is, when I chart stuff out I will always write the full chords rather than something like a bass tab. Firstly, because it helps to have it In case we have to get a dep bass/guitar/keys player. 

Scales are good to know, and a great reference, but chord tones are more of an accessible way to start making bass lines. For me relating bass lines to chords is better way of understanding harmony and the function of each chord in any given key. It gives more of an ability to target key notes that'll compliment what the others are playing and I can omit notes I know won't work over a chord. 

If someone gives you a chart with some more unusual chords, say I Will Survive that says: Am Dm G C△ F△ B° Esus4 E it'd be simpler to relate something like a m7b5 to a chord rather than a half diminished scale. Because right away you know which notes you can highlight, and can disregard notes that won't compliment the chord. Plus, you can visualise the shape of that chord, and know where those key notes sit as opposed to having to run through the whole scale to find a 6th or b9 or 11 or whatever the extension to the chord may be  

She could also be referring to the numbers system! 

 

Edited November 26, 2017 by M@23

[thegummy]

Thanks a lot, I very much appreciate your reply.

I've never played anything with a chord like that before, maybe that's partly why I don't understand it if the approach comes in to play for chords like that.

[EssentialTension]

Playing in relation to scales one is perhaps more likely to think in terms of 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8.

Playing in relation to chord tones one is perhaps more likely to think in terms of 1-3-5-7-9-11-13 (while of course taking account of any diminished or augmented tones in the relevant chord) and the bassist may want to outline the chord tones more than the scale tones

Edited November 26, 2017 by EssentialTension
Missed a bit

[EssentialTension]

Chord tones are primary

[thegummy]

Thanks for the reply.

See, the description on that page is what I thought may be what is being meant but I don't know if it's true (assuming I'm not misunderstanding it).

When I first heard of this I took a few songs I was in to at the time and wrote out the intervals of the bass line and found that chord tones weren't especially favoured over other notes.

From my own playing experience, obviously the root note is massively favourable; the 5th sounds good but maybe cliche sometimes but the 3rd, for example, doesn't necessarily sound better than the 2nd or 4th. In fact, while I may be playing 3rds without thinking about it, when I've been mindful of trying to use 3rds it never really sounds right.

I think I need to try and find time to study the intervals of a few more bass lines.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Carol Kaye is very much a jazz musician, and she moans regularly about playing jazz with other musicians who noodle about on a scale without referencing the chord changes.

If you wanted an example of a simple chordtone driven bassline, "New Years Day" by U2 is a good one - lots of root and third spelling out exactly what the chord sequence is.

[Jazzjames]

If you can ‘control’ the chord tones through a chord sequence, then you can describe the harmony without help from a chordal instrument.

Everyone can hear where the form is, and your playing is clear and grounding for the band.

 

“You can just play Bb major scale across the first 4 bars of Autumn Leaves” is true, but it doesn’t really help you to outline the tension and resolution of the chord changes.

 

Ray Brown is an excellent example of someone who plays a lot of chord tone-based ideas, but he makes them sound interesting, because of his variation of said chord tones (plus his sound/rhythm/articulation etc!).

 

Check out his masterful bass work here with Sonny Rollins on There is no greater Love.  No chord instrument here, so you can hear him very clearly.