knicknack Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 hey guys, new to this site so be nice! Just looking at getting a more professional rig as the festival dates are building for next year, and i've settled on getting me some markbass gear, which i think will be a LMK and a 104 of some kind. I was just wondering what the key differences are between the HR and HF models, i really am a newbie to the world of non combo amplification! any help much appreciated! Paddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 HF have bigger cabinets so will have a bit more bass. That's it. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knicknack Posted September 1, 2008 Author Share Posted September 1, 2008 Thats it? Superb, i was worried there was some major issue that might cause me to have to think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixshooter Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 I thought that one was front ported and the other rear ported, therfore you would get a different sound? Although yes the front ported one is bigger than the rear ported one, I give you that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 [quote name='knicknack' post='274568' date='Sep 1 2008, 02:42 PM']Thats it? Superb, i was worried there was some major issue that might cause me to have to think![/quote] Talk to Mark at Bassdirect (poptart on here) He will fill you in with the details, and then supply your every need [url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Mark_Bass_Amplifier_Range.html"]BassDirect Mark bass page[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 [quote name='sixshooter' post='274596' date='Sep 1 2008, 03:07 PM']I thought that one was front ported and the other rear ported, therfore you would get a different sound?[/quote] Port location has no bearing on sound. Also note that although the HF cabs will produce more bottom with equal power they still have the same maximum low frequency output as the HR cabs because the limiting factor is the speaker displacement (excursion x area). So if you have enough power to add some bass boost without your amp clipping then the HR cabs will produce just as much bottom as the HF cabs, they'll just need some EQ to do so. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 [quote name='alexclaber' post='274643' date='Sep 1 2008, 10:37 AM']Also note that although the HF cabs will produce more bottom with equal power they still have the same maximum low frequency output as the HR cabs because the limiting factor is the speaker displacement[/quote]-1. Maximum low frequency output is the product of sensitivity x displacement limited power. The larger cab will go louder in the low end, assuming they use the same drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 I would haeartily recommend checking out the Berg AE410 (Mark @ bass direct again), since it sounds amazing and as far as I can tell is about the same price as the MB 410 cabs now. It is a bit heavier but is a stunning box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='274679' date='Sep 1 2008, 04:04 PM']-1. Maximum low frequency output is the product of sensitivity x displacement limited power. The larger cab will go louder in the low end, assuming they use the same drivers.[/quote] That doesn't make sense - you are overlooking that as sensitivity goes up displacement limited power handling diminishes proportionally. If you EQ the smaller cab to sound the same as the larger cab then the cone excursion for both speakers is identical and both cabs will run out of Xmax at the same point. If thermal power handling was the limiting factor then the larger cab would have the advantage but for bass guitar use it is almost always the mechanical (excursion) limits of the speaker that restricts max SPL. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 (edited) [quote name='51m0n' post='274688' date='Sep 1 2008, 04:08 PM']I would heartily recommend checking out the Berg AE410 (Mark @ bass direct again), since it sounds amazing and as far as I can tell is about the same price as the MB 410 cabs now. It is a bit heavier but is a stunning box.[/quote] As a more flexible alternative consider using two AE210 cabs, that way you get a modular 4x10 effectively and the convenience of just taking one cab for some gigs and having the full stack for larger ones. This is of course a more expensive alternative but it's so easy to shift and an LMK through one 2x10 is loud enough for most situations but through two it's bonkers. Another added advantage (for me at least, being lazy) is that with the amp on top of the two 2x10s stacked it's higher than on a single 4x10 making it easier to see/adjust whilst standing. I get my 4x10 fix when I want it and I get the convenience of a compact rig when I need that. The Bergantino AE range doesn't have carpet covering, instead it has a sprayed-on tough polymer textured coating and they'll look better longer and won't pick up every single dog hair on planet earth. I just can't bear that bobbled stuff that comes on carpetted cabs, it reminds me of awful knitwear I was forced to wear as a child in the '80s. :blush: Edited September 1, 2008 by Sean Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 [quote name='alexclaber' post='274718' date='Sep 1 2008, 11:37 AM']That doesn't make sense - you are overlooking that as sensitivity goes up displacement limited power handling diminishes proportionally. Alex[/quote] Model a typical MI driver in WinISD Alpha Pro using two box sizes, same tuning, then look at the Maximum SPL chart. If the box is already at optimum size then going larger won't be of any benefit, but the number of commercial electric bass cabs which are optimum size can probably be counted on the fingers of one hand, and then after one has lost three of them in an accident. With the typical undersized alignments used going larger or smaller can make a significant difference in the low end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted September 1, 2008 Share Posted September 1, 2008 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='274820' date='Sep 1 2008, 06:17 PM']Model a typical MI driver in WinISD Alpha Pro using two box sizes, same tuning, then look at the Maximum SPL chart.[/quote] I already have. Increasing the box size gives you a few dB extra in about a 10Hz band around the tuning frequency. However this fails to take into account that the speaker can handle more than the thermal power handling for peaks and also that the ports are rarely large enough to allow full response around the tuning frequency. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 [quote name='Sean' post='274745' date='Sep 1 2008, 05:12 PM']As a more flexible alternative consider using two AE210 cabs, that way you get a modular 4x10 effectively and the convenience of just taking one cab for some gigs and having the full stack for larger ones. This is of course a more expensive alternative but it's so easy to shift and an LMK through one 2x10 is loud enough for most situations but through two it's bonkers. Another added advantage (for me at least, being lazy) is that with the amp on top of the two 2x10s stacked it's higher than on a single 4x10 making it easier to see/adjust whilst standing. I get my 4x10 fix when I want it and I get the convenience of a compact rig when I need that. The Bergantino AE range doesn't have carpet covering, instead it has a sprayed-on tough polymer textured coating and they'll look better longer and won't pick up every single dog hair on planet earth. I just can't bear that bobbled stuff that comes on carpetted cabs, it reminds me of awful knitwear I was forced to wear as a child in the '80s. :blush:[/quote] +1 if you have the cash. The ae210 is phenomial. Just turned out that for me the 410 fit in my car and saved me some dosh Either way you cant lose with the berg ae stuff. It used to be seriously expensive boutique only, but now MB cabs are more expensive I dont think that applies so much! The tough covering is most definitely not impervious IME however. But it does look nice and Jim B and Mark are getting me a touch up kit and metal corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted September 2, 2008 Share Posted September 2, 2008 [quote name='51m0n' post='275642' date='Sep 2 2008, 05:24 PM']+1 if you have the cash. The ae210 is phenomial. Just turned out that for me the 410 fit in my car and saved me some dosh Either way you cant lose with the berg ae stuff. It used to be seriously expensive boutique only, but now MB cabs are more expensive I dont think that applies so much! The tough covering is most definitely not impervious IME however. But it does look nice and Jim B and Mark are getting me a touch up kit and metal corners.[/quote] Ha ha In a "revenge of the bass cabs" moment one of my AE12's left a nasty black mark on the wall at home Still, couple of custom "IKEA Blue Bag" covers and that won't happen again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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