pete.young Posted July 16, 2008 Share Posted July 16, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='240952' date='Jul 16 2008, 03:23 PM']The offending tunes are: Fever Mercy, Mercy, Mercy Canteloupe Island Watermelon Man Summertime Mac The Knife Tenor Madness[/quote] Uh-oh. So much for my jazz credentials: the only one on this list I could play from a standing start is Summertime, and I don't care how many abysmal renditions you might hear at the heart it's a brilliant piece of writing by one of the all-time-greats of the contemporary music scene. I kinda see what you're driving at. Your gripe is not with the songs but the useless and deluded people who think that all it takes is bowler hats, waistcoats and jumping up and down yelling "shoot that tiger"! My grandad used to say there's no such thing as a bad tune, only bad musicians. Anyway Bilbo, with the kind of stuff you're knocking out on a regular basis in the Mar Azul I'm surprised that you've got any time for playing jazz ;-) Say Hi to Gione for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 [quote name='pete.young' post='241385' date='Jul 16 2008, 11:35 PM']Anyway Bilbo, with the kind of stuff you're knocking out on a regular basis in the Mar Azul I'm surprised that you've got any time for playing jazz ;-)[/quote] The funny thing there, Pete, is that most of that stuff Gione plays is the Brazillian equivalent of 'Barbie Girl' - its really lightweight pop stuff but, because it is relatively hard to play if you are not familiar with Brazillian rhythms, it comes out sounding fresh and exciting. I guess its called fooling some of the people all of the time!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted July 18, 2008 Author Share Posted July 18, 2008 (edited) Right; I'm gonna say it.....! Putting a funky groove to 'Fever' does not improve it - it is a turd. Polish it as much as you like it remains a turd. Captain Smith and Pocohontas my a***. 'Summertime' was written as light opera (Porgy and Bess) (and how you can call someone a contemporary musician when he died in 1937 is beyond me ). There are several good versions of it (the Miles Davis/GilEvans arrangement especially). Every other version I have heard or played has been a pale imitation and it has become embarrassing to play it or hear it played. It makes me cringe. Stop doing it. Now. I know you like it. I know you think its funky and great but it isn't. Its a sixteen bar minor blues. There are 1,000s of them. Find another one. Edited July 18, 2008 by bilbo230763 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 (edited) And how many keyboard players say... " I have these really nice changes for Summertime" Chromatic...blah blah etc And they think every other keys player in the world has not said that... Had a nice surprise a few days ago [not that i do many jazz gigs anymore] 'Have you met miss Jones'... [and not as a funk tune either...!!!] Not sure why i like that tune...but i do. Proberly 100's of better tunes. 'My Funny Valentine' as the BALLAD..Droaning on for hours. [Every one has to take a solo] Nice tune though Garry Edited July 18, 2008 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar South Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='242408' date='Jul 18 2008, 09:39 AM']Right; I'm gonna say it.....! Putting a funky groove to 'Fever' does not improve it - it is a turd. Polish it as much as you like it remains a turd. Captain Smith and Pocohontas my a***. 'Summertime' was written as light opera (Porgy and Bess) (and how you can call someone a contemporary musician when he died in 1937 is beyond me ). There are several good versions of it (the Miles Davis/GilEvans arrangement especially). Every other version I have heard or played has been a pale imitation and it has become embarrassing to play it or hear it played. It makes me cringe. Stop doing it. Now. I know you like it. I know you think its funky and great but it isn't. Its a sixteen bar minor blues. There are 1,000s of them. Find another one.[/quote] I can't stand funk, I dare anyone to try to make or call any tune I play on in any of my own bands (I'm 'co-bandleader' in my jazz band) funky. If you're around Chester anytime that we're playing, come see us. Possibly not revolutionary and we'll be fine tuning for a while yet, but you won't be disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 [quote name='lowdown' post='242612' date='Jul 18 2008, 12:27 PM']Had a nice surprise a few days ago [not that i do many jazz gigs anymore] 'Have you met miss Jones'... [and not as a funk tune either...!!!] Not sure why i like that tune...but i do. Garry[/quote] Great tune, isn't it. Try to get hold of Oscar Peterson's 'We Get Requests' CD. Ray Brown plays bass and this version is held up as an example of really good, spare bass playing with every note counting. It also shows that a tune can swing without being up-tempo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 (edited) [quote name='bassace' post='242940' date='Jul 18 2008, 06:03 PM']Great tune, isn't it. Try to get hold of Oscar Peterson's 'We Get Requests' CD. Ray Brown plays bass and this version is held up as an example of really good, spare bass playing with every note counting. It also shows that a tune can swing without being up-tempo.[/quote] Yep someone burnt that for me [oops]. did i say that! Funny you mention Mr Brown... I was watching L.A is my Lady [with old Blue eyes] This afternoon. And Ray Brown was just amazing on that session, Along with the rest of the band of course... 'Mack the knife' from the same session...yep it sure did swing ! Garry Edited July 18, 2008 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 [quote name='bilbo230763' post='242408' date='Jul 18 2008, 09:39 AM']Captain Smith and Pocohontas my a***. 'Summertime' was written as light opera (Porgy and Bess) (and how you can call someone a contemporary musician when he died in 1937 is beyond me ).[/quote] Compared to some of the stuff I like to play, he's still the new kid on the block :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 [quote name='Machines' post='241151' date='Jul 16 2008, 06:37 PM']Smoke on the Water[/quote] I thought you were joking.. But i think you meant this version. [url="http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt8wFNDzx10"]http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Jt8wFNDzx10[/url] Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 [quote name='Oscar South' post='242939' date='Jul 18 2008, 06:00 PM']I can't stand funk[/quote] The feeling's mutual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar South Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 [quote name='The Funk' post='243183' date='Jul 19 2008, 04:42 AM']The feeling's mutual. [/quote] Lol, didn't get that for a few seconds . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulfinger Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 The problem with most jazz standards is not the tune but the players IMHO. Great players can make anything sound good (speaking of Oscar Peterson - he could even pull off "Satisfaction" ). When mediocre musicians play the umpteenth rendition of some jam-session warhorse because that´s really all they know, that´s when it gets lame. "Cantaloupe Island" is a good example. It gets played a lot because "hey, that one´s easy, it has only three chords and a funky backbeat". Wrong. If you don´t have a good idea what you can do with these three chords, it´s going to sound very, very boring. That said, I´ve never heard anyone play "Misty" in a way that made me enjoy that song. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 [quote name='Mr Bassman' post='241119' date='Jul 16 2008, 05:55 PM']You're worried? My band is called "The Watermelon Men"[/quote] He's not kidding ! Rhino Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutToPlayJazz Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 (edited) Oh dear, guilty on all counts - But... I think a lot of the problem is the way people approach these numbers. Ours are very different. For instance, we of The PHD play summertime in ballad form, which changes into funk, which changes into 5/4 swing. Makes it interesting. The OutToPlayJazz (the band not the man) version of "Song for my Father" starts in a funky 4 and switches into swing for the second section. Our "The Lady is a Tramp" switches to bossanova for the middle 8 & back to swing again for the last eight bars. No banality here as far as I'm concerned. Make sure you have technically excellent musicians & you're half way there. If you do have to play the standards, make them interesting. See how many versions of "Here we go round the mulberry bush" & "Doctor Who" you can slot into standards before any audience members notice. It's fun PS. No pinching my arrangements, okay? Edited July 19, 2008 by OutToPlayJazz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar South Posted July 19, 2008 Share Posted July 19, 2008 Heh, at uni when we were doing jazz in our practical class, the lecturer specifically said "I don't want to hear any 'Oasis plays jazz' style performances" (basically didn't want the lazy guitarists to just strum 7th chords), so I worked out a solo made entirely of melody fragments from Oasis songs . The guitarist from my band also slipped in the intro to 'top gear' but got caught. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endorka Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 [quote name='lowdown' post='242612' date='Jul 18 2008, 12:27 PM']And how many keyboard players say... " I have these really nice changes for Summertime" Chromatic...blah blah etc And they think every other keys player in the world has not said that... [/quote] Oh good grief yes. How often has this happened: you hand the chord chart to the pianist, who looks scathingly at it (whilst keeping it at a distance), and announces that "I wouldn't have done it that way". After an intense period of frowning, hand wringing, gnashing of teeth, and huge mileages of pencil scribbling, he evenutally hands the chart back to you with an air of triumph and satisfaction. "There! That's much better". And you examine the chart to find that then entirety of the reharmonisation is a tritone substition of one of the chords... Yup, that made a huge difference Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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