M-Bass-M Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 On Tuesday night I went to see Fleetwood Mac play at the Phones 4 U (formerly MEN) Arena in Manchester. Although the band gave a fantastic performance overall, I just could not hear any of John McVie at all! To make the point, early on in the set they played The Chain, and when it came to the bass riff, there was none of that driving twang that you associate with the original recording. I could just about make out the rumble of the lower frequencies, but certainly there was a staggering lack of definition from the low mids upwards. Now part of it could be where I was sitting - in the upper circle, side-on, about half way. Another possibility was that because the sound engineer was so focussed on giving Mick Fleetwood a massive, stadium-rock drum sound, he just completely lost the bass in the mix. Did anybody else also attend this gig and have similar feelings about the bass sound? Spoiled for me what is supposed to be a great rhythmn section backbone partnership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 It's sadly not a great venue for sound quality at the best of times. It's basically a large, echoey concrete bowl with hard surfaces everywhere for the sound to ping off. The Apollo and Ritz, on the other hand, are often great. But their capacity is more limited and they perhaps lack the 'stadium' feel of the M.E.N. Arena (sorry, I refuse to call it the Phones 4 U Arena ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneknob Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 [quote name='M-Bass-M' timestamp='1380800447' post='2230666'] On Tuesday night I went to see Fleetwood Mac play at the Phones 4 U (formerly MEN) Arena in Manchester. Although the band gave a fantastic performance overall, I just could not hear any of John McVie at all! To make the point, early on in the set they played The Chain, and when it came to the bass riff, there was none of that driving twang that you associate with the original recording. I could just about make out the rumble of the lower frequencies, but certainly there was a staggering lack of definition from the low mids upwards. Now part of it could be where I was sitting - in the upper circle, side-on, about half way. Another possibility was that because the sound engineer was so focussed on giving Mick Fleetwood a massive, stadium-rock drum sound, he just completely lost the bass in the mix. Did anybody else also attend this gig and have similar feelings about the bass sound? Spoiled for me what is supposed to be a great rhythmn section backbone partnership. [/quote] A friend at the recent Birmingham gig was disappointed to see a stunt drummer barely concealed on stage behind Mick. Which is a shame. Ditto not hearing JMcV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I saw FM in London back in 2009 at Wembley Arena and noticed the same thing. One thing I also noticed, was that John Mcvie plays that Chain riff fingerstyle but used a pick on the original recording. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M-Bass-M Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 [quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1380804278' post='2230787'] It's sadly not a great venue for sound quality at the best of times. It's basically a large, echoey concrete bowl with hard surfaces everywhere for the sound to ping off. [/quote] I'm not sure about that. I've seen a number of bands play at the MEN (including The Who and Paul McCartney), and I've never felt then that the bass was lacking. However, on those occasions I was lower tier / stalls, so it could be that the sound does deteriorate signficantly in the upper tier. [quote name='toneknob' timestamp='1380804400' post='2230792'] A friend at the recent Birmingham gig was disappointed to see a stunt drummer barely concealed on stage behind Mick. Which is a shame. Ditto not hearing JMcV. [/quote] I had an excellent view behind the stage, and I didn't see any stunt drummers at all. What I did see, however, is that halfway through the set Mick Fleetwood joins the rest of the band on the front of the stage with an "acoustic" drumkit. After use, this drumkit gets immediately dismantled by roadies behind the stage - perhaps your friend saw this kit being assembled / dismantled? [quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1380804451' post='2230794'] I saw FM in London back in 2009 at Wembley Arena and noticed the same thing. One thing I also noticed, was that John Mcvie plays that Chain riff fingerstyle but used a pick on the original recording. [/quote] Yeah, that surprised me too, and given my earlier comments just sounded completely underwhelming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skychaserhigh Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 The sound at that arena changes quite a bit between the upper and lower tiers. Having said that , if Roger waters can get an amazing crystal clear sound there why can't everyone else ? This attention to detail really matters when the tickets cost a small fortune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 [quote name='skychaserhigh' timestamp='1380814011' post='2230979'] if Roger waters can get an amazing crystal clear sound there why can't everyone else ? This attention to detail really matters when the tickets cost a small fortune. [/quote] The sound was good, but a ) occasionally deafening and b ) the bass was MIA. I think it all depends where you're sitting, I think.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneknob Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 [quote name='M-Bass-M' timestamp='1380812549' post='2230953'] I had an excellent view behind the stage, and I didn't see any stunt drummers at all. What I did see, however, is that halfway through the set Mick Fleetwood joins the rest of the band on the front of the stage with an "acoustic" drumkit. After use, this drumkit gets immediately dismantled by roadies behind the stage - perhaps your friend saw this kit being assembled / dismantled? [/quote] re the stunt drummer, this just in from pal at the Brum gig. "The stunt drummer was well concealed and there was a lot of gubbins on the stage behind Mick's massive golden kit. Maybe the stunt drummer had the night off in Manchester? Yes, there was a bit halfway through the gig where they went all 'harking back to the old days just us four jamming together'. They wheeled out a normal sized kit at the front of the stage for Mick (it looked like a child's toy with him sat there). Stevie and Lyndsey were hanging by Mick, all great friends. John McVie was still lurking in a dark bit on his own in the corner. The roadies did take Mick's little kit apart straight afterwards and you could see bits being chucked around backstage. I missed the next few songs because I was distracted by everyone around me pointing and going 'look, they're taking the kit apart' This wasn't the kit that the stunt drummer was playing. He was most definitely still there, beavering away throughout the show. Occasionally catching a carelessly flung sweaty towel or cap from Mick. I am very rarely wrong where stunt drummers are concerned." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Sorry to be Mr Thicky, but what is a stunt drummer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toneknob Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Say someone can't or won't play all the parts they're supposed to, you employ someone who's carefully (or not it would appear in this case) hidden to cover the bits that the player is missing. That's the stunt musician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Drums or perc? [url="http://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/is-mick-fleetwood-using-a-back-up-drummer-on-this-tour.320094/"]That is the question[/url]. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 FWIW, it looks like a perc set-up to me - they've had perc since the 80s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbayne Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 ISTR MIck Fleetwood used an African drummer called Asante for FM gigs. He had the big African Drum setup and dressed in tribal gear. It was probably a carry over from his 'Zoo' days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M-Bass-M Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 I'm wondering if I didn't see any percussionist / second drummer because he was on the other side of the stage. In fact, I do recall at one point at the gig thinking that the drum sound being played wasn't matching what I was seeing MF play. Only for a few beats or so, but perhaps this was me hearing the second drummer? Anyway, MF was still an impressive drummer to watch, stunt drummer or not. It's why it's even more of a shame I couldn't hear JMcV, because I'd loved to have seen and heard such an impressively tight rhythm section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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