finding the sweet spot in small venues 1st time

[Ou7shined]

In my tribute band, our singer/leader generally thinks I'm talking a load of c*ck and being pernickety when I go on about acoustics (hollow floors, low ceilings etc) so I don't really get an opportunity to find the best spots for my rig when were setting up. Annoyingly he is also the first to complain about the bass being "too loud" or boomy to you and I.
The other day we did a gig in a really small pub - so vocal PA only. As luck would have it I got there early and was first to set up. The space we had was little more than a 15 x 8 foot wide solid stone recess with wooden floorboards (no stage) and a fairly high roof. At first I warily (because of the acoustics) set up in the corner (on crates for a change - I didn't bother taking my extra 4x10 - with about 3 ft of air behind it) as I presumed the drums would be in the middle as per usual - but once it was put to the vote the drums were required where I'd set up . I'd already had a bit of a plonk about and thought I sounded ok but a little boomy as expected, so I was well up for setting up my front ported rig in the middle against the back wall (space issues) to see the difference. Alas it was worse but there was no going back because it would have been "too much hassle" to switch everything back so I did the best I could with my eq and got on with it. Apparently it sounded best if you were right at the back of the room in the centre.

So what are the rule of thumb do's and don'ts for small venues so I can try and get it right first time?

[neepheid]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='202880' date='May 20 2008, 02:30 PM']In my tribute band, our singer/leader generally thinks I'm talking a load of c*ck and being pernickety when I go on about acoustics (hollow floors, low ceilings etc) so I don't really get an opportunity to find the best spots for my rig when were setting up. Annoyingly he is also the first to complain about the bass being "too loud" or boomy to you and I.
The other day we did a gig in a really small pub - so vocal PA only. As luck would have it I got there early and was first to set up. The space we had was little more than a 15 x 8 foot wide solid stone recess with wooden floorboards (no stage) and a fairly high roof. At first I warily (because of the acoustics) set up in the corner (on crates for a change - I didn't bother taking my extra 4x10 - with about 3 ft of air behind it) as I presumed the drums would be in the middle as per usual - but once it was put to the vote the drums were required where I'd set up . I'd already had a bit of a plonk about and thought I sounded ok but a little boomy as expected, so I was well up for setting up my front ported rig in the middle against the back wall (space issues) to see the difference. Alas it was worse but there was no going back because it would have been "too much hassle" to switch everything back so I did the best I could with my eq and got on with it. Apparently it sounded best if you were right at the back of the room in the centre.

So what are the rule of thumb do's and don'ts for small venues so I can try and get it right first time?[/quote]

Was that Cellar 35? Couldn't make it down unfortunately, was babysitting my goddaughter and her siblings

[King Tut]

Where I put my rig is usually dictated by the space available. I know this is usually not ideal, and i have to EQ to the best of my abilities. I doubt if there's many bands would set up around the bass player's ideal position!

[bremen]

[quote name='Ou7shined' post='202880' date='May 20 2008, 02:30 PM']So what are the rule of thumb do's and don'ts for small venues so I can try and get it right first time?[/quote]


[url="http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/"]http://billfitzmaurice.com/phpBB2/[/url] lots of discussion on speaker placement here (or linked from here).

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='neepheid' post='202905' date='May 20 2008, 02:56 PM']Was that Cellar 35? Couldn't make it down unfortunately, was babysitting my goddaughter and her siblings [/quote]
Yeah it was.
But don't worry man it wasn't all that great. Only about 30 folk turned up, Murray ran out of steam - scoring 2 winning goals earlier that day took it out of him - thank christ the seasons up soon. He called a break and when we came back on the house PA started cracking up (see : how was ur gig thread). Amazingly we got 250 sheets for it and they've asked us back again.
Blue Lamp on Friday & Drummonds on Satz tho.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='King Tut' post='202910' date='May 20 2008, 03:00 PM']....I doubt if there's many bands would set up around the bass player's ideal position![/quote]
So true - but I'm hoping that if I can come up with some science I'll have a bit of a chance.

[BOD2]

Well there are a couple of things to bear in mind (don't know how much this helps when you don't have any choice where you setup your gear, though).

First, if you have a single cab and you stand close right in front of it then most of the sound will miss your ears completely. So if you turn up so that you can hear it on stage, it can get too loud further out front. So doing some kind of soundcheck to check the sound the audience hears may help here. Also, angling the cabinet up, or raising it nearer ear level might also help.

Second, your cabinet will "couple" with the floors and wall if placed very close to any corner. That can be where the wall meets the floor and/or in the actual corner of the room (two corners there - wall/floor and wall/wall). This makes the cabinet louder than it would otherwise be if it was freestanding away from the corners. Again - check how loud things are from the audience position and, probably, avoid setting up right back in a corner.

Third - beware hollow resonating stage floors. If you setup on a stage you can sometimes get resonating booming in certain notes. If this is excessive, try moving to a different spot on the stage or try insulating the cab from the floor if possible. Some people use Auralex foam pads under the cab to completely insulate it from the floor.

The best advice always, is to move out front and listen to what the audience hears, then try to compensate accordingly.

[cheddatom]

I love the sound of my rig on a big hollow wooden stage - drums too!

[BOD2]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='202960' date='May 20 2008, 04:02 PM']I love the sound of my rig on a big hollow wooden stage - drums too![/quote]

I like it too. Best on-stage sound I ever had was from one such floor. Of course everyone else on stage thought the bass was too loud....

[cheddatom]

[quote name='BOD2' post='202973' date='May 20 2008, 04:27 PM']Of course everyone else on stage thought the bass was too loud....[/quote]

Idiots!!!

[stevebasshead]

[quote name='BOD2' post='202973' date='May 20 2008, 04:27 PM']Of course everyone else on stage thought the bass was too loud....[/quote]

If it's too loud, they're listening too hard

[wizbat]

My situation is usually similar to king tuts with what choice I get as my band is often playing a support role and any space left on stage to move is a bonus, but the whole thing about this is a nightmare as different venues have their own problems and it is often impossible to get the sound you,re after the first time at a venue because you never really know how your rig will react till you are into the set and get accustomed to the sound to make any adjustments, this is a pain when most of your rig is off side of the stage.