thunderbird13 Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Was having a quick look on ebay last night and saw a Kay double bass for sale near me. TBH I'm in 2 minds as its quite beat up and had a very obvious a neck repair so I'm hoping that it will be cheap and I do like the idea of owning a Kay again BUT then I'm reminded of their quality issues and what they were like to play when I was a kid. So does anyone have any experience of these ? I'm also assumming that if you need a double bass adjusted by a luther its going to be a lot more hassle than adjusting an electric bass Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Kay (as I understand it) were the most popular US ply double basses in the 50s onwards, beloved of rockabilly and C&W/bluegrass bands. Being ply they tend to amplify pretty well (there's less complex stuff going on sound-wise than with a carved bass). Good gigging DB I believe, other than for orchestral players obviously who need more tonal superiority. DB luthiers aren't necessarily expensive (I got my sound post re-set by Malcolm Healey for just a tenner) but it depends on the work needed. Also good DB luthiers are not that easy to find. There's a guy in Clapham (Laurence Dixon), a guy in Maidenhead (Peter Tyler), I think there's also someone Greenwich way, Malcolm Healey is now south of the M25 etc, but really not that many around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbird13 Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 Cheers Clarky something to think about as I say I'm in 2 minds I dont really need a double bass , I'm quite happy with my Stagg, but I dont want to miss out on a bargain and if I do go it I want to make sure its worth the inevitable argument with the wife Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Kay basses are pretty scarce in the UK and have all those old Americana associations, which will probably increase the market value. The bass I borrowed when I started out was a Kay - I grew up Dunoon where there used to be a big US naval base and I guess some imported items came over with them. From what I recall of the bass, the standard models are not better than the old European plywood basses which are more plentiful and sell for less, but still a respectable plywood bass. The skinny neck may not suit everyone either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobVbass Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Mr King or Mr Slobluesine should be along in a while to give the full Kay lowdown but they're generally revered as excellent ply basses (I'd like one!) pretty rugged except the neck joint where they all (most) seem to snap - these days englehardt make the same basses to the old pattern. Prices for them are usually inflated a bit by the name you can get a very very decent bass for the £1500-2000K that a Kay usually goes for but they're great basses. If it's this one [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kay-3-4-Size-Double-Bass-/200827067597?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Sting_Instruments&hash=item2ec239dccd#ht_500wt_932"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kay-3-4-Size-Double-Bass-/200827067597?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Sting_Instruments&hash=item2ec239dccd#ht_500wt_932[/url] and it stays at £40, buy it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobVbass Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 you can look here for more info - [url="http://www.kaybass.com/"]http://www.kaybass.com/[/url] ask the seller to read the serial number on the Kay bass viol sticker inside the f hole to date it PS don't confuse them with the cr*ppy Japanese electric basses of the seventies (not sure if that's what you meant in your OP) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbird13 Posted October 2, 2012 Author Share Posted October 2, 2012 [quote name='bob_pickard' timestamp='1349187624' post='1822983'] If it's this one [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kay-3-4-Size-Double-Bass-/200827067597?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Sting_Instruments&hash=item2ec239dccd#ht_500wt_932"]http://www.ebay.co.u...cd#ht_500wt_932[/url] and it stays at £40, buy it [/quote] well it wont stay at £ 40 now you've drawn everyone's attention to it !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulKing Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 (edited) Well here I am, and the price has already gone to £160. I expect it'll go over £1000 ... possibly. But maybe not, i'll come back to that. Kays are very highly prized collectors basses. But they are not all good, and even the best aren't THAT good, although there are enough decent ones that they're worth all the attention us vintage plywood fans give them. In general, earlier are better for acoustic tone, a desirably warm thumpy tone.later, post war models used thicker ply (as steel strings were taking over from low tension gut). They have several infamous design faults that leave most with severe health problems: #1 Neck joint. It's crap, and breaks easily. IF it's properly set and tidily glued, a fixed neck is no problem. HOWEVER the bass for sale here looks messily done (maybe only an aesthetic problem), and could easily have been fixed with PVA glue (bigger problem, nightmare to undo), and looks at a horribly shallow angle ... leaving the bridge height very low, a low string tension and probably weakened tone. Need a profile photo to be sure, but I'd say this neck needs removing and resetting at a decent angle. Plus new bridge. [i]Minimum [/i]£500 to get it set properly. #2 Sunken top. Can't see on this bass, it looks OK from the pictures. #3 Broken scroll / peg box. This one looks OK #4 Broken end block. Cheap poplar wood weakens and breaks internally, causing endpin to pull forwards at an angle. Expensive rebuild - take bass apart, replace block of wood at base, re-fit end pin (probably a new one, the originals were sh*te), refit top onto bass. ouch. Otherwise, this looks in good shape cosmetically. A hole in the ribs ain't a massive problem, can patch up cheaply or expensively, whatever floats your boat. They usually have the emblem missing from the tailpiece like this one, although it does look like the original tailpiece. I'd say this as from the 50s, but a serial number (from printed label inside, and probably stebncilled onto the inside surface too) would confirm that. What's it worth? In good times, a good Kay will sell for £2-3,000. It's not good times right now, maybe £1500-£2500. This one needs lots of work, ballpark £1000, to reach its potential as a fine collectors bass. To buy and play, I'd spend only a few 100s on this, it looks like it won't play very nicely ... bad neck angle. To buy as an investment, with more cash to follow ... if I really wanted a Kay ... maybe I'd have a budget of £750-£850 in mind, with a view to spend at least the same again, and be left with something worth £2k or more. It's not a dead loss. Mine was not in dis-similar condition, I paid £750 for it, and spent about the same again. I now have an AWESOME drool-worthy bass that gets comments from vintage experts all over the world. But it was a gamble. I reckon Kays in this country number only a dozen or so, certainy only in double figures. This is the third Kay I've seen come up on UK ebay in over 5 years. And I look almost every day. (I bought the other two by the way... ) We'll be wtaching! Edited October 2, 2012 by PaulKing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulKing Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 ere she is ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeponehandloose Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Another thing to be wary of is the issue of the dressed fingerboard. I ve played basses where they have been over dressed and the fingerboard srarts to vibrate when you play slap style, not good. Of course all these faults are being pointed out so you wont bid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulKing Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Well, who bought it? ebay auction is still live, but he just messaged me to say he'd sold it. Naughty naughty.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobVbass Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 that's not on is it - naughty boy..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbird13 Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 [quote name='PaulKing' timestamp='1349257497' post='1823823'] Well, who bought it? ebay auction is still live, but he just messaged me to say he'd sold it. Naughty naughty.... [/quote] well it wasnt me ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lockpicker1969 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 if it was a real auction you wouldnt be able to do that , flebay should put a stop to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeponehandloose Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 Seems as though any interesting bass ends suddenly on ebay, if people have a price in mind put it up as "buy it now" , thats what its there for. We' ll never know now.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbird13 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 Curioulsy there seems to have been a bid accepted on this item at 23.14 last night - perhaps the buy it now deal didnt happen ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thunderbird13 Posted October 4, 2012 Author Share Posted October 4, 2012 [quote name='keeponehandloose' timestamp='1349284206' post='1824315'] Seems as though any interesting bass ends suddenly on ebay, if people have a price in mind put it up as "buy it now" , thats what its there for. [/quote] But dont you pay extra for Buy it Now listing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iiipopes Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 [quote name='PaulKing' timestamp='1349194695' post='1823115']Neck joint. It's crap, and breaks easily. IF it's properly set and tidily glued, a fixed neck is no problem.[/quote] This is the #1 issue with Kay basses. All Kay basses, at some point, require a neck reset, and sometimes a block and tenon rebuild. As far as the sunken top, they were made for gut or other low-tension strings. Many Kay players use one of the Innovation sets. Others use Spiro Weich or Solo, or "bump" a medium tension set over a string. Other issues are wear-and-tear from the basses being relatively inexpensive in both cost and construction, but played and treated hard. The tooling was bought by Englehardt when Kay went out of business, and they are effectively the same basses, with a tad more robust construction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash Posted October 4, 2012 Share Posted October 4, 2012 (edited) Yes I see the Kay has gone from the listings. Perhaps it was for the best if you were thinking of bidding unseen. I'd rather not buy unseen from eBay these days on anything acoustic or delicate I think it's worth hanging on for the right bass locally or for something to crop up on here. I love my old Czech Selmer bass and I got it as a trade on Basschat. So glad I didn't go for something similar I had spotted on eBay which subsequently kept being relisted. Edited October 4, 2012 by ash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 (edited) here go... 1966 Kay M1, pretty much mint condition, i had this shipped from Germany for 2200 euros, VERY light and with a very thin neck ( really not much fatter than a Fender at the nut) diamond burst laquer and rosewood fingerboard. Kays are great American rock n roll double basses and rare as hens teeth in the UK, mine doesn't suffer from any of the design faults Paul mentions but i had to pay top euro for that. not for sale btw. [attachment=120219:front.jpg] [attachment=120220:back.jpg] [attachment=120221:neck.jpg] [attachment=120222:serialstamp.jpg] Edited October 5, 2012 by slobluesine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keeponehandloose Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 Are you saying this is for sale? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slobluesine Posted October 5, 2012 Share Posted October 5, 2012 [quote name='keeponehandloose' timestamp='1349454665' post='1826613'] Are you saying this is for sale? [/quote] no, but i see what you mean now corrected... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuhaugen Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 I just posted my Kay on eBay UK... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/160964256036?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1555.l2649 [font="Arial"][size="2"][b]1954 Kay C-1 Double Bass, Serial #36676[/b][/size][/font] [font="Arial"][size="2"]I have owned this wonderful bass for 50 years and it has toured the world with me. Time for a new home where it will get played regularly.[/size][/font] [font="Arial"][size="2"][b]Fabulous condition, never damaged, never repaired, no delamination or warping, never refinished.[/b][/size][/font] [font="Arial"][size="2"][b]Neck is perfectly straight, never damaged or repaired.[/b][/size][/font] [font="Arial"][size="2"][b]More Kay Bass info at www.kaybass.com[/b][/size][/font] [font="Arial"][size="2"]There is absolutely no flaw or defect to this instrument excluding the minor cosmetic scratches and wear which you can see in the photos.[/size][/font] [font="Arial"][size="2"]You should plan on a new bridge, new strings, and you will need to get a new tailpin (the assembly is there, the pin is not). Absolutely no other work necessary or desirable.[/size][/font] [font="Arial"][size="2"]Comes in a lightly padded canvas gig bag. I do not have a hard shell or flight case for it. The bass is at our home in the Paris, France area and shipment/delivery is the responsibility of the buyer although I would be happy to assist with arrangements.[/size][/font] [font="Arial"][size="2"]French bow sold separately if you are interested.[/size][/font] [font="Arial"][size="2"]Call me for more info or to discuss if you wish... +33 6 1075 4765.[/size][/font] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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