LowdownRumble Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I think this is the most appropriate section of the forum so here goes: how would one go about producing a sound like this [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ed8NBPmits"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ed8NBPmits[/url] really thick, driving sound that fills out the whole bottom end, but is still quite punchy and doesnt drown the bass drum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 I just Googled this and found a couple of things - the bassist Kevin Baird - according to a thread on Talk Bass is using a mix of various FX including an MXR Octave pedal - the SansAmp pedal linked below - and some kind of simple synth pedal to double his lines. [url="http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/sansamp/bassdriverp.html"]http://www.tech21nyc...assdriverp.html[/url] Listening to the track you posted the bass is definitely doubled in some way - i.e. he's split the signal between his effects/synth part, and then the picked 'clean' signal, which also sounds like it's got some distorion on. Having been using some synth sounds myself recently I can confirm that you will get that fat, bottom-end sound via a synth as it'll provide a much wider, deeper tone than just the bass - obviously if you're using an octave pedal that will give your sound a whole other ocatave below what you're already playing and will massively thicken up your tone... Re recording it - you can obviously track both parts on separate channels and or mess with one clean track and one effected one - then there are myriad prodcution techniques to widen, fatten, deepen, compress, amplify and exagerate the sound of the bass/bottom end - this includes good mastering too... so it's a whole world of variables when it comes to the studio.... hope that helps M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimskidog Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 (edited) I'm gonna go slightly off topic here because I think it's important. An admission first, my first instrument is bass. I love bass. It's my favourite instrument by a long way. BUT... ...what non-recording engineers miss all the time is that the bass will only drive if it is not being walked over by other instruments. Just because you like the sound it makes by itself it doesn't mean that's either the best sound for it in the mix or indeed, how that sound will sound in the mix (unless the bass is the most important sound in that mix - it rarely is for anyone but the bass player in that band... sorry, get over it). So, it follows that the best tone for a bass is the one that sits best in that particular mix, a tone that takes that song to a different level. (That's because a great record is one that is better than the sum of it's parts rather than just being equal to the sum of the parts.) You'd be amazed that if you solo'd the bass in a multitrack recording of your favourite record how different it sounds compared to how it sounds on the final record. So to answer your question, there are a dozen ways to get to the sound you hear on the record. (But if you could hear that track solo'd you probably wouldn't like it nearly so much because it will have been hacked at with an eq and compressed to within an inch of its life to make it fit in the mix.) There'll be significant cutting below about 80hz for the kick, somewhere around 300hz to get rid of some mud, and a bit of a boost in the low mids for weight and in the midrange somewhere for growl. The signal might have been split into two or even three tracks or not. My starting point on this would be to bring the bass up on two channels on my desk and use a pair of VOGs, one on the lower mids and one to bring out the mid-growl. If I couldnt get there with that I might put a nice analogue distortion such as an early RAT on the mid channel. (Ultimately, this actual sound is a combination of the players fingers, the instrument, the amp or DI used, any effects, compression, eq, etc.) Anyway,a bt meandering for which I apologise but I hope this helps somehow. Edited April 7, 2012 by Rimskidog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Rimskidog' timestamp='1333813363' post='1606880'] I'm gonna go slightly off topic here because I think it's important. An admission first, my first instrument is bass. I love bass. It's my favourite instrument by a long way. BUT... ...what non-recording engineers miss all the time is that the bass will only drive if it is not being walked over by other instruments. Just because you like the sound it makes by itself it doesn't mean that's either the best sound for it in the mix or indeed, how that sound will sound in the mix (unless the bass is the most important sound in that mix - it rarely is for anyone but the bass player in that band... sorry, get over it). So, it follows that the best tone for a bass is the one that sits best in that particular mix, a tone that takes that song to a different level. (That's because a great record is one that is better than the sum of it's parts rather than just being equal to the sum of the parts.) You'd be amazed that if you solo'd the bass in a multitrack recording of your favourite record how different it sounds compared to how it sounds on the final record. So to answer your question, there are a dozen ways to get to the sound you hear on the record. (But if you could hear that track solo'd you probably wouldn't like it nearly so much because it will have been hacked at with an eq and compressed to within an inch of its life to make it fit in the mix.) There'll be significant cutting below about 80hz for the kick, somewhere around 300hz to get rid of some mud, and a bit of a boost in the low mids for weight and in the midrange somewhere for growl. The signal might have been split into two or even three tracks or not. My starting point on this would be to bring the bass up on two channels on my desk and use a pair of VOGs, one on the lower mids and one to bring out the mid-growl. If I couldnt get there with that I might put a nice analogue distortion such as an early RAT on the mid channel. (Ultimately, this actual sound is a combination of the players fingers, the instrument, the amp or DI used, any effects, compression, eq, etc.) Anyway,a bt meandering for which I apologise but I hope this helps somehow. [/quote] Certainly would agree to all of this. The bass is generally quite compressed in a recording. This is so you can mix it properly, the bass is a very dynamic instrument and when you put it in a recording you find that on its own, the quiet notes are nearly inaudible and the loud notes are overpowering. If you're playing the bass with distorted guitars, the distortion adds quite a bit of compression on its own and you will find that you only hear the attack of the bass and not the ringing out of the note if you don't use any compression. Don't get side-tracked into thinking that what sounds best on its own is what is going to sound best in the mix. However, that is not to say you can't have a little dirt in your sound and still let it sit in the mix. In fact, I have found a good sound in putting a bit of distortion on the mids/highs to squash down the peaks a bit and then use a compressor on the lower end to give you the same compression without losing too much definition and low end. This requires multiple tracks, but I find the best way to go about sorting this if possible is to DI the bass, that way you can play it through as many different amps and or effects as you want without having to re-record the actual bass part itself. Edited April 7, 2012 by EdwardHimself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 [quote name='Rimskidog' timestamp='1333813363' post='1606880'] ...what non-recording engineers miss all the time is that the bass will only drive if it is not being walked over by other instruments. Just because you like the sound it makes by itself it doesn't mean that's either the best sound for it in the mix or indeed, how that sound will sound in the mix... ...You'd be amazed that if you solo'd the bass in a multitrack recording of your favourite record how different it sounds compared to how it sounds on the final record... ...There'll be significant cutting below about 80hz for the kick, somewhere around 300hz to get rid of some mud, and a bit of a boost in the low mids for weight and in the midrange somewhere for growl. [/quote] I agree with all this, too. It's essential that everything in the mix is placed in its own frequency as much as possible, particularly the kick and bass, which will work against each other if not separated in some way. And a lot of it is to do with the playing itself, i.e. knowing where to leave space so the mix can breathe! Less really is more! More or less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 Great posts guys - it's for all the reasons above that it was such a relief for me to hand over all the tracks on thus album I've been working on to a pro mix engineer and let him deal with all the frequency issues - although from my point of view I was entirely happy with the sound I'd got in the original tracking phase of the recording I trusted the guy's judgement when it came to slotting it into overall mix. As has been said the bass is not the most important thing in the mix it is nice to hear your playing sounding the way you hoped it would within the mix... Anyway great info on the technical side of mixing bass into a tune properly, and the fact that there are multiple layers of signal processing beyond the simple sound of bass and amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowdownRumble Posted April 7, 2012 Author Share Posted April 7, 2012 A huge thanks for all the info from everyone. Very insightful, especially for a beginner like me. Just to clear a few things up - I understand that bass is more or less a rhythm instrument and I'm not looking to make it the main thing in the mix. It's just that on the song that I'm trying to mix, the bass is much like the one on this song, except less 'in your face'. I know about some of the fundamental basic stuff, like cutting and boosting to separate bass and bass drum etc. but I just couldn't get it to sound like I wanted it to. I'll have a go at all the things mentioned when I get back because as of yesterday I'm on holiday (and I'm wasting time on basschat silly me) Also, I don't have the luxury of handing my work over to someone else so that's not gonna happen, but oh do I wish I could. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimskidog Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 [quote name='LowdownRumble' timestamp='1333829285' post='1607178'] I'll have a go at all the things mentioned when I get back [/quote] That's the nail on the head man. It's all trial and error. Once it starts to come together you'll be glad you put the time in to work it out rather than trying to follow some kind of cardboard cutout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted April 7, 2012 Share Posted April 7, 2012 [quote name='Rimskidog' timestamp='1333830815' post='1607200'] That's the nail on the head man. It's all trial and error. Once it starts to come together you'll be glad you put the time in to work it out rather than trying to follow some kind of cardboard cutout. [/quote] +1. Trial and error, that has basically how I have spent the last 7 years of making recordings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted April 8, 2012 Share Posted April 8, 2012 (edited) Nothing extra special about the bass sound on that recording to my ears. Just a nice bass part that's been well arranged, EQ'd and compressed to fit properly into the mix with the other instruments. Edited April 8, 2012 by BigRedX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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