apa Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Not a how to but a how do? Just out of curiosity I was wondering how you all intonate your fretless to aline to the dots? I do mine so that if I finger just before the dot the string is actually 'fretted' on the dot if you know what I mean To my mind if you finger over the dot the note will be a little forward of the dot due to the thickness of your finger. Whats your prefered? and whats the 'correct' way? No rights or wrongs in all this unless you want to take into acount the microscopic difference in scale length and hence dot positions that these two methods make A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I made an effort to play my fretted basses with my finger just behind the fret all the time to help my fretless intonation, so i set my fretless basses to be in tune just a little behind the dot rather than right on it. That way I find going between fretless and fretted doesn't require much of a change of technique. Ultimately I try to play without looking at the fingerboard too much so ideally it should be more about how in tune it sounds than where the notes are in relation to the dots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apa Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 Good point on the fretless cross over and yep you try not to look at the dots lol. You do the same as me then on the intonation A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 (edited) [quote name='apa' timestamp='1320491857' post='1427462'] Not a how to but a how do? Just out of curiosity I was wondering how you all intonate your fretless to aline to the dots? I do mine so that if I finger just before the dot the string is actually 'fretted' on the dot if you know what I mean To my mind if you finger over the dot the note will be a little forward of the dot due to the thickness of your finger. Whats your prefered? and whats the 'correct' way? No rights or wrongs in all this unless you want to take into acount the microscopic difference in scale length and hence dot positions that these two methods make A [/quote] I just make sure that the octave is about correct at the double dot and the rest is ear. Gary Willis thinks it's more complicated than you say: [url="http://garywillis.com/pages/bass/bassmanual/setupmanual.html"]http://garywillis.co...etupmanual.html[/url] I've asked here at Basschat for an explanation of Willis' claim about the correctly intonated note not always being in the same relation to fretlines and/or side dots but I've never found a satisfactory answer or even whether Willis is right or not - most people seem to dismiss his point of view: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/62523-varying-finger-position-in-relation-to-fretlines-on-fretless-bass/page__hl__gary+willis__fromsearch__1"]http://basschat.co.u...__fromsearch__1[/url] Edited November 5, 2011 by EssentialTension Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Looking at that thread again, it does end with a good attempt by Doddy to explain what Willis is talkin' 'bout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apa Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 Cheers Dave I didnt read the willis stuff (too busy listening to Caig Charles) but Im with the phylosophy of lines on a fretless just complicate things and dots are there for rough reference only its your ears that count. Like was expressed in your thread. Like bottomEndian shows in his pics thats what I was getting at and as doddy says you adjust to suit. I was just wondering about the basic setting or theoretical setting. Awooga awooga A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I find that with the dots only, I don't look at the fret board. When I use the lined one there is a temptation to look! They are so faded that I can't really see them anyway (that's being in your mid 40's for you!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goblin Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I prefer to have mine just behind the dot, unlined with tiny dots on the side, so you don't look much anyway. It works well for me, although it makes lined fretless more confusing for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apa Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 [quote name='goblin' timestamp='1320535255' post='1428228'] I prefer to have mine just behind the dot, unlined with tiny dots on the side, so you don't look much anyway. It works well for me, although it makes lined fretless more confusing for me! [/quote] Exactly A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 TBH it doesn't really matter. I use the dots/lines to get me roughly in the right place on large jumps up or down the neck and use my ears to get in tune. So long as the marker for the octave is roughly in the right place that's good enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZMech Posted November 6, 2011 Share Posted November 6, 2011 Got no lines or dots at all on my double bass, I get slightly jealous on them if I ever try to jump up the neck, and miss (badly). Well, time to do some scales Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apa Posted November 6, 2011 Author Share Posted November 6, 2011 [quote name='ZMech' timestamp='1320607319' post='1428940'] Got no lines or dots at all on my double bass, I get slightly jealous on them if I ever try to jump up the neck, and miss (badly). Well, time to do some scales [/quote] Ha! will be joining you in that big bad world soon. Just ordered a Stagg EDB so Ill be in the same boat. Oh hold on its got side dots A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted November 7, 2011 Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1320519022' post='1427955'] I just make sure that the octave is about correct at the double dot and the rest is ear. Gary Willis thinks it's more complicated than you say: [url="http://garywillis.com/pages/bass/bassmanual/setupmanual.html"]http://garywillis.co...etupmanual.html[/url] I've asked here at Basschat for an explanation of Willis' claim about the correctly intonated note not always being in the same relation to fretlines and/or side dots but I've never found a satisfactory answer or even whether Willis is right or not - most people seem to dismiss his point of view: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/62523-varying-finger-position-in-relation-to-fretlines-on-fretless-bass/page__hl__gary+willis__fromsearch__1"]http://basschat.co.u...__fromsearch__1[/url] [/quote] Basic physics mean that perfect intonation on a fretted instrument is impossible and you will get the same problem trying to use the fret lines on a fretless too literally. If your open note is in tune then you can only ever intone one fret to be perfectly in tune with the open note. It boils down to fact that an open note has a lower string tension than any fretted note and thus if you intone using open & 12th (for example) "fret" , the low fretted notes/lines will be slightly sharp because youve lenthened the string to more than its theoretical ideal length in order to compensate for the added tension when fretting the intoned note. This compensatory lengthening is only "perfect" at the intoned fret - lower notes get gradually sharper, higher ones gradually flatter. Of course you could intone using only fretted notes (e.g. 1st and 13th frets) in which case all frets would be intune but then the open note would be conspiciously flat ... faiten tuning kind of does this and uses smaller bridge-first fret distance to re-sharpen the open notes. In practice ... the effect is very small in a well setup fretted unstrument i.e. lowest possible nut cut and bridge height. On a fretless you should be using your ears not worrying about precise alignment with some line but .. you will find that the "in tune" sound is slightly more backwards relative to the fret marker on lower frets. Edited November 7, 2011 by bassman7755 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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