artisan

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='280912' date='Sep 10 2008, 09:42 AM']Then my work here is done.... [/quote]


in theory my theory is that your theory of my having no theory is theoretically the theory behind the theory of my theoretically learning some theory.

[quote name='lowhand_mike' post='280557' date='Sep 9 2008, 05:23 PM']good on ya.
see thats the thing, there is NO point in doing it if you feel you are not getting anything from it. if it helps then its done its job.

certainly some recent threads on here have got me looking and actively (though not very much) learning some theory but without a structure to learn it i'm finding it hard to take in.
as for playing multiple version s of the same thing alot of the scales are indeed similar in their structure so similarities can arise, its how you apply the scale that counts and thats where i'm seeing problems in my own playing.[/quote]


i've not really worried about it much before but reading this 'ere thread got me thinking i'd like to try a new,or different approach to some of my playing.i can play pretty much any style but i'm more a jack of all trades & a master of none.well apart from playing old iron maiden songs pretty much how steve harris used too play them, which probably wasn't to good for my playing in the early years as more work went into my right hand rather than my fretting hand,but that helped me build up loads of strenght & stamina in my fingers which incidently my missus seems to rather like.
so i'm hoping this here jazz thoery thingy will give me a few new ideas.

do you know, this thread has been a damn good read & has got me thinking (1st time for everything ) more about my playing, especially after playing countless 12 bar tunes at my local jam session last night.
i decided that my musical arsenal (no not arsehole) was actually more limited than i realised it was. i.e. i was more or less playing multiple variations of essentially the same thing-does that make sense ?. o.k. it was all very fluid & fitted in well with the songs but i was struggling to come up with anything that sounded much different,which made me think about this 'ere thread.
so you buggers have got me thinking about learning a bit-just a bit mind-of music theory,my good friend & jazz bass playing hero has offered to -"gulp"- give me some jazz lessons
now look at what you've done.............
i'm hoping this will open up my mind to a lot more playing options & maybee revitalise my overall playing skills.

[quote name='ironside1966' post='278206' date='Sep 5 2008, 10:01 PM']My 2p worth


If a player can get by without any theory there is nothing wrong with that at all, I dont care as long as they can do the job, but I bet 99% of players know more theory then they think, most people will know what notes to play over simple cords, I bet most people can play a major, minor, and blues scale.

Some people get bogged down with speed and technique, at the expense of musicality and taste.

You can also practice 247 badly and never achieve anything positive, this is where having a good teacher helps.

One thing is for sure, only the lucky few can get by without putting in a lot hard work in at some point.[/quote]

+1
good post
& well said

you're boring me too

but its good to have a wee rant every now & then.

+ you could be correct,maybee some more theory at an eary age could have improved my playing somewhat,but i'm fairly happy with it at the mo.

btw i don't think i'm brilliant at all-just competent.

[quote name='phil_the_bassist' post='277933' date='Sep 5 2008, 03:38 PM']What I gathered from that post is that you think that someone who's learned music theory can't play with their heart, or did I misunderstand you?[/quote]

i think you misunderstood,that is not what i said or what i'm implying.

[quote name='SteveK' post='277870' date='Sep 5 2008, 02:37 PM']OK, a serious question to those that know no theory and have never had a lesson. Not meant to be at all inflammatory.

Do you think that it benefits you as a player not to know any of the "boring" theory stuff? If so, how?

Or, is the (honest) reason, because "you haven't got 'round to it", or like the OP, "just can't be arsed"?

As I say - serious question...Honest answers only please.


Back in a couple of days, just have to nip to Austria.

Steve[/quote]

hi Steve.
i never felt the need for any formal tuition,maybee i'm lucky or just weird,but i just felt i had a very good "feel" for bass guitar from the very start,+ all the musicians i've played with over the years have always liked the way i play,so i never felt the need for any tuition.
i don't think it makes me either a better or worse musician than a formally trained player,some people play from their head-some from their heart.
me i'm a heart kind of bloke.

hey i'd never knock anyone for studying their instrument (the musical one not the pink one ) but as WOT said such comments as Bilbo made rub people up the wrong way & are totally uncalled for.

+ just because someone is self taught does not mean they don't know any theory.i started playing when i was 12 years old, i'm 41 years old now & reckon i know my way around the fretboard as well as any player here.
infact a very good freind of mine,who happens to be a very good jazz bass player (mind he's in his 60's & has been playing since he was a kid) told me he thought i was a very good technician & one of the best bass players he knows-'nough said.
now i'm not being big headed, as i'm a very modest person,those were his exact words-praise indeed from such a bass & jazz master.
so to sum up my inane rambling (sorry i'm bored shi7less at work) just because a player has never had any formal tuition does not make him a crap player or in fact a "one trick pony"
i thank you.
art'

[quote name='CHRISDABASS' post='276434' date='Sep 3 2008, 06:57 PM']ive been playin for nearly 14 years now and its only recently i feel like i need to start with some theory! (apart from the basics that i already know lol)

i learned to play bass just by listening to the bands i liked and figuring the parts out! this has given me a pretty dam good ear and i can now pick stuff up really quickly! it also has led to me being a very free and natural player. i dont have to think about what im doing in a mathmatical way i just do it by feel. this really works for me in a band situation where you improvise and jam a lot!

a lot of the musicians that i was around when i first started out really didnt understand how i could play with out lessons or theory (ive never had a lesson in my life) they had so many lessons and its all they talked about but in a band situation they sounded so wooden like they were being restricted by what they were being taught! like they were only aloud to play what was "correct" and "proper" but to me music is about expression and feel. i think you should start by playing how you want to play and develop your own style! then later on if you feel like you hit a brick wall or want to take it to another level consider lessons etc

if your happy and confident with your playing then its obviously working for you! dont worry about theory too much or what other people say/think! just keep up to date with the basics and just get on with playing and enjoying it! after all thats what its all about!

also remember that some of the greatest musicains in the world couldn't/cant read or write a note of music!!


[/quote]

+1 totally agree

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='276755' date='Sep 4 2008, 10:53 AM']This is what is called a series of justifications. It all sounds perfectly plausible but what Chrisdabass is actually saying is that you can become a 'free and natural' player' without doing any work and, and this is the one that REALLY gets on my thruppnies, that people who have studied sound wooden [i]because [/i] they have studied and had lessons. This is a fantastic way of justifying a lack of investment in your playing. Music is about 'expression and feel'? Of course it is. But its not about magic and the magic bass pixie coming along and sprinkling pixie dust on the chosen few. It is about gathering as much information as you need to make defensible decisions about note choices, groove playing, musica textures etc

The trouble with 'natural' and 'untrained' players is that they are invariably one trick ponies who have a limited potential to find work. They are generally less informed about the wider musical world and fairly entrenched in a small generic silo. Outside of their comfort zone they struggle.

The fact that some of the greatest musicians in the world can't read a note of music is neither here nor there. The question is what route is going to get you the most long term benefits as a player. I would advocate for systematic study over pixie dust everytime!

If you want my opinion, if anyone ever tells you there is an easy way to learn the bass that doesn't require concerted study, give them a wide berth.[/quote]

absolute load of bollocks-i've never had a lesson in my life yet i can happily play any style of music-blues-funk-regge-jazz-rock-etc. to me its more about your "feel" for the music rather than how much you spend on lessons or even how much time you spend studying.
now if you want to take lessons & spend hours studying theory & the like absolutley fine, no problem with that at all.but to put somebody else down or suggest they are a "one trick pony" just because they have not had any formal training is totally out of order.
as for this "They are generally less informed about the wider musical world and fairly entrenched in a small generic silo. Outside of their comfort zone they struggle" i think you should keep your arrogant,self important comments to yourself.

PM'd

hi Will.
this little beasty here
[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=21293"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=21293[/url]

i just lowered the price from £250 this morning when i spotted your urge bass.
btw looks really nice with the gold hardware but still looks cool with the origionals
cheers
Neil.

thats gorgeous mate-don't suppose you fancy a precision & some cash ?

its not a U.S. 62 reissue by any chance is it ?
both Marcus & myself have had trouble with necks on those.

[quote name='Marcus' post='269401' date='Aug 25 2008, 12:55 PM']hmmmm.....

wonder if it's the one Beedster, Me and Artisan owned !! [/quote]

lol
i think you're right

i'm in absolute flat wound heaven.i've tried a few brands including thomastic/rotosound/fender & a few i can't remember & never liked any of 'em.
but-i just put a set of ernie ball group iv flats on my jazz & they are amazing,very full sound & quite bright sounding for flats too,nice tension & they don't have that awefull sticky feeling that some flats have.
also they aren't too expensive either. infact i like them that much i'm going to order a set for my p' bass.

[quote name='Marcus' post='267598' date='Aug 22 2008, 07:11 AM']I understand this is true....

it's odds on Fender will produce a signature model, no chance they're gonna miss an opportunity like that.

Just hope they make it properly..... In Japan !!!

Hope they don't use the USA Vintage series to base the model on....I've had 3 62 stacknob re-issues and they've all had rubber neck syndrome ![/quote]

hi Marcus.
yeah i had a lurvley LPB '62 reissue jazz & had the same problem--sh*te for £1200.00,had to get rid.
i just hope my '62 reissue P bass doesn't go the same way.

will for me his best ever studio sound is definately the jazz bass on stadium arcadium-absolutley awesome

holy sh*t,somebody buy my old jazz before i sell my testicles for medical research

now that is the best fender jazz period.

[quote name='deaver' post='245691' date='Jul 22 2008, 09:33 PM']Have sent a PM[/quote]

replied to.

hi Chris,not a lot moving at the mo' .
if i had the dosh i'd buy my old jazz off you in an instant but hey i'm skint too.
all the best Neil.

[quote name='Kirky' post='245114' date='Jul 22 2008, 11:12 AM']Had a go on this last night and its a beaut. Have a bump, mate.[/quote]

cheers

last bump before this heads on to ebay

bump

[quote name='gareth' post='237672' date='Jul 11 2008, 10:27 PM']These basses are very good - see [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=23285"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=23285[/url][/quote]

cheers for that Gareth & thanks for the mention in t'other thread.