jude_b

I haven't heard it for years, but, "May the cube be with you", by Thomas Dolby. I really really hope it wasn't a synthesiser.

One take on this is that the blues scale isn't really found in classical music but, together with blues chord progressions, forms the bedrock of virtually all 20th century (popular) musical forms. Learning the blues is therefore a sensible place to get to grips with the blues scale (where else do you start?). (I'd be interested if anyone knows a pre 20th century classical piece which includes something like a blues scale - there's a Mozart piece with bluesy minor 3rd I can immediately think of, but I've never spotted anything else.) As far as dull blues basslines go, it depends on the bass player. Getting together interesting basslines for blues numbers, whilst also keeping it tasteful, is more difficult than it might naively appear!

Whoops - I've always played it with fingers. Ah well.

[quote name='Doddy' post='691682' date='Dec 22 2009, 05:36 PM']As far as the pick is concerned,have you tried using a thumb pick? I use a couple of different techniques to mute the strings. When I'm ascending the strings I use a combination of basic rest strokes and using my thumb as a moveable anchor-as I move up a string my thumb follows on to the string below. So,if I am playing on the upper two strings,my thumb will be resting on the A string. I will also then be muting the E and B strings with my little and ring fingers,rather than tucking them into my hand. When I'm descending,I mute with my fretting hand-mostly with the index finger,which slightly touches the higher strings enough to mute them. If you are trying to mute the notes,but are getting 'pull off's' you may be releasing the string too much. You only have to release your finger pressure very slightly to mute the note that you're playing. When using a pick I use the same left hand technique when descending,and mute the strings with the side of my picking hand. String skipping,like everything else,is just really a matter of practice. Slowly try playing intervals of,say, 5th's,then octaves,then 10th's. When I say slow,I mean reeeaaallllyyy slow. Concentrate on playing the notes cleanly and accurately. Remember,Speed is a by-product of accuracy.[/quote] This all sounds like good solid advice to me - although I do remember scratching my head when trying to work out what a "rest stroke" was from descriptions in tutor books when I started out. I was lucky to have someone who could show me. Similar issue with left hand muting - much simpler to get someone to show you rather than try to work it out from a description if you can. I suspect you may have a problem playing rest strokes if you're playing with your index finger nail because your hand will have a tendency to pull away from the guitar and you may need to develop a clever way to use your thumb/palm to mute open strings. More like playing classical guitar/fingerpicking than "standard" bass playing - but I wouldn't let that hold you back.

I've found playing with three fingers is a useful addition to my technique. I think I started trying to do it when learning the solo from My Generation by The Who in my first covers band - it seemed to be the only way I could get a similar sound, although I'm not sure what Entwistle did in practice. I can also remember Flea using what sounds like three finger triplets on Blood Sugar Sex Magic - can't remember the song name at the moment - the lyrics "mellowship for a fellowship" ring a bell.

Some slight deviations from above - going only for quite famous players: Jameson - What's Going On? (Marvin) Jaco - The Dry Cleaner from Des Moines (Joni Mitchell) Paul McCartney - Day in the Life (Been relistening to The Beatles a lot lately and think he is quite underrated as a bass - sounds as if he's playing classical (piz) bass on electric on some of the Sgt Pepper era stuff.) Larry Graham - The Jam (Graham Central Station) Bootsy - Soul Power or maybe Hot Pants (Jame Brown) Jimi Hendrix - All Along the Watchtower Bernard Edwards - Good Times (Chic) Norman Cook - Praise You (well it was probably done electronically but it is a good bassline and he is a pretty famous bass player)

I think, for now, I'm going to have to agree with the sentiments of the original post title. I'm afraid that when I've read the above posts, I still just convert everything into major/minor scales with appropriate adjustments. When I'm playing/writing I also just think in terms of conventional scales or chords. I understand what modes are, I just haven't found them to be useful in practice - perhaps that's because I came to bass from piano, on which chords and harmonic relationships are arguably easier to visualise (at least that's what's implied by the use of pictures of the keyboard in standard books on harmony). Perhaps I need to look into modes a bit more carefully before dismissing them completely - they clearly are of use to other people and it's always useful to consider alternative approaches. I'm still surprised, however, that modes are introduced so early in popular guitar/bass books to, what I feel, is the detriment of conventional theory. I seem to remember having many conversations at cross purposes with guitarists who quoted modes without any real knowledge of the musical theory/notation that the vast majority of other musicians use! All the best.

Had look at this and it was quite interesting. Particularly in the sense that it is a reminder of how current western scales are a mixture of convention and fashion. No doubt we will end up with something quite different in a few hundred more years. The main point I was trying to make, albeit a little flippantly, was that I think modes may be quite confusing for someone trying to pick up theory. Whilst I'm self taught on bass, I'm classically trained on piano and modes were completely unnecessary for the range of styles I covered as a student (and continue to play). I've always been surprised that guitar magazines and the like always seem to introduce them at an early stage, rather than as an arcane bit of historical theory. I can understand that it might be useful to learn different patterns that are variations of the western scales with diminished/augmented notes in - however, why isn't this just expressed in the more commonly used standard musical notation rather than modes? Perhaps modes can be used as a shortcut to the family of 7ths, which are important in jazz/blues/rock etc, which the vast variety of electric guitarists/bassists want to get to? Someone learning using modes also has to (eventually) convert what their learning into standard scales, which I can imagine leads to additional confusion. I guess a tutor would argue it's good for the soul. Finally, guitarists/bass guitarists have to communicate with other musicians and surely ordinary/diatonic scales is the best way to do this? I was really just looking for some insight into why modes tend to be pushed in mainstream guitar/bass tutor books but not (at least in my experience) for other instruments, where modes are a rather more advanced theoretical idea. My prejudice probably comes from my old piano teacher. He was also a classical guitarist and told me not to waste my time worrying about modes. If there are good reasons why modes are useful, then I may have been missing out and I should get practicing them. I just need to make sure I don't get them mixed up with the columns outside old buildings. [quote name='leftybassman392' post='661117' date='Nov 21 2009, 03:52 PM']Without wishing to sound overly pompous & boring may I politely suggest you have a look at my article series on Ancient Greek music in the pinned thread on this forum, which will give you a historical perspective (and maybe a few other bits as well...) [/quote]

"The root is King,The 5th is Queen, and the 3rd is the Jack" [quote name='fatback' post='652338' date='Nov 12 2009, 10:02 AM']I quite like that, actually![/quote] I like that too - sounds like Bob Dylan. I've never really got my head around modes, despite covering them in theory, they always seemed a bit unnecessary given a knowledge of major, minor and blues scales. I've just misspent some money on a bass magazine on a journey home from London and the theory part in the back on modes makes general relativity look like a breeze - really horrible. The names are enough to put you off alone. From memory, did modes predate the development of major/minor scales - I seem to remember them being used in Medieval plainsong or something? Can we consign them to history? They always seem to be used in guitar magazines and (I think) tend to confuse the issue. I can't remember Ray Brown directly using modes in his book on bass method. I'm self taught on bass, so maybe this is a gap in my knowledge - can anyone who's been trained with modes explain whether/how they are helpful? (Sorry for going a little off topic)

If anyone's interested, the online Italian dictionary says "con ritmo". Apologies to any Italian speakers out there if I've just said something offensive. I find that written music for, say, the piano, and particularly classical, is much easier to interpret along the right lines without hearing the piece first. I've personally found that, in any case, standard notation transcriptions for bass can be pretty patchy and can only be used as a guide - particularly if there's slapping involved. I learnt a huge amount from a book called "Basslines" (can't remember the author right now), which included transcriptions of Mark King, Stanley Clarke, Marcus Miller and Jaco pieces. However, for some of the songs/pieces I had trouble tying in the transcriptions with what I was hearing on record (possibly my failing). Again, I learnt some of the pieces before hearing the records and, I think, I was further away on the funkier stuff than, say on the melodic/classical-ish pieces. In short, I agree that groove is difficult to notate. Although, saying that, I now remember some Gershwin piano preludes, where the groove came naturally from the left hand rhythm. Perhaps you need a good transcription, reading abilities and the experience of the type of music you're playing. I suspect the real answer lies in being a good enough reader/player to really pick up the rhythm from a good transcription.

You should really get a proper upright and I just happen to be selling one that fits in your price range... However, they are cumbersome old lumps and I can understand why you might want an electric upright first. Personally, I've found it quite difficult to make the transition from electric (including fretless) to upright. I think the main reason is that, because of where I am in life at the moment, I just haven't been able to put in the practice I think you need. If you want to play upright properly I'd suggest getting a teacher, having lessons and being prepared to put in some serious groundwork. I've found the physicality of the upright is quite different too - particularly trying to get the strings down to the fretboard in higher registers. It depends what you want to play, of course. Generally speaking, folk is likely to be easier to pick up than jazz. My (limited) experience of electric uprights is that they're nothing like as difficult to play as "proper" uprights and it's possibly easier to wing it on an electric upright without developing correct DB technique. So going to electric upright first might be a bit misleading. Best of luck in any case!

I've heard some comments that the quality of Mexican Fenders can be variable, although the same can possibly be said about many of the basses of large scale manufacturers irrespective of what country the bass is built in. Have never had a problem with mine - a solid working bass, with a good range of tones and excellent value. As with anything, I'd probably try out the particular bass you intend buying a few times to make sure it feels and sounds right for you.

I once got some good advice from a session player, along the lines of "You spend 10 years learning how to play and then the rest of your life learning what not to play." As others have said, you've got to got listen to a lot of different stuff to find out what's possible and then work out what you can do and then what you actually want to do. It's absolutely natural to decide that some of the stuff you've listened to whilst learning isn't very interesting after all. Some of the rubbish I've listened to because the bassline is interesting is downright embarrassing. I really hate the jazz-funk-light that a lot of technically gifted bass players seem to gravitate towards. To me it's musical dishwater - particularly when it's been created primarily to throw the spotlight on a bass playing virtuoso to the detriment of the music. Why is the tone of the bass horribly tinny quite often as in Alain Do-dah's video? I don't count the Jaco's output in this category as I think the majority (but certainly not all) of his playing fits in with the overall musical context - and it also helped that he played with some seriously talented people. I'm afraid that I still think Donna Lee is genius after hearing it for the first time first 20 years ago. I also think there's a point where there's only so much time and effort you want to put into technique (particularly when life starts getting in the way). My favourite bassline at the moment is to JB's Soul Power (Bootsy), it couldn't be simpler yet it's so effective and also strangely gets the baby off to sleep. Sorry, I've just nodded off myself reading back my posting.

[quote name='steve-soar' post='638503' date='Oct 27 2009, 09:20 PM']That is one of the most ditgusting displays of bass playing, ever.[/quote] I had always wondered who made the test-card music.

In teenage arguments with my metal loving friend about whether Mark King was better than Steve Harris, his main objection to Mark King was the height at which his bass was slung. He also used to cite Steve Harris's ability to "pretend shoot" the audience whilst playing as a major plus point, so these clearly weren't Newsnight Review level debates. Mark King was probably the reason I picked up a bass - not really because of his slap solos, but because some of his lines introduced me to (a sort of) funk. As others have said, this led on to other music and players. Talented chap too.