philwood

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The only reason I stumbled across that was from listening to Martin Taylor the great Jazz guitarist, i noticed he plays a 7#5#9 and immediately after plays a 7#5b9 a heck of alot so i havent a clue why it works. Ab = b9 / C = 11 (natural tension) / Eb = #5 / G = Root / Bb = #9 correct me if im wrong.

Thanks for that Pete that helps alot and is very interesting to hear from someone who has studied with both personally, as Im only going through 3 or 4 of her books available on the website. What your saying is exactly what Ive been working on. Another thing i noticed was for example if for e.g the Chord is a G7#5#9 I can play an Abmaj7 arpeggio over the top and it sounds incredible because it has all those tension notes and its such an easy way of producing a great sound which for someone of my little intelligence is great! Even over a normal G7 it would give me a b9, 11 and #5 and is great. Did carol or jeff ever teach scales at all? In terms of learning all the modes for example? Thanks

I completely agree Jennifer it does matter alot, Where as if I used to see a Am7 chord i might think A dorian for example i now think of the extended arpeggios i.e Cmaj7 Emin7 over the Am7 chord being played underneath. Now i know you still have exactly the same notes available as if you were thinking A Dorian but for me I just cant explain how much of an improvement ive seen since ive started thinking this way. It might just that i have a crap imagination and struggle with A dorian but thats just me personally. Each to there own and whatever works but because of this method im getting to the stage where I dont have to think any more and its freeing me up. Sorry for rambling! just kind of hard to describe.

Well after studying some of her material shes saying that the Jazz musicians of the 40s and 50s always approached Jazz from Chord Tones and Chord Subs, Extentions, passing tones etc and they never thought of scales or modes, I wasnt around in the 40s and 50s so i cant comment!! But for me its certainly worked wonders in my playing after years upon years of approaching it from modes. Even my fellow musicians who i work with tell me my walking and soloing is alot more fresh and melodic, I dont know it might be wrong but its just worked for me so Im happy lol.

Stumbled across this about 4-5months ago from carol kaye, and have being applying to my practising and can honestly say its made me improve no end. Just thought id throw it in here - 'I think that too much emphasis is placed on scales and hardly none place on getting chordal tones together. I decry the ignorant way they teach scales as "the only way", as they have not the facility to teach chordal tones, nor the teaching experience to do that. Even fine string bass teachers teach chordal tones, but hardly enough elec. bass teachers. I never teach scales until a couple years later on in the lessons. They should get their chordal tones together first, not the piano way of learning "scales first" on the elec. bass which plays according to "chords", not solo work, to back up a band, or even to play some blues lines for immediate jamming. You're correct in the sense that you do learn it all, but there is literally almost nothing out there about chordal tones and the reason being is ignorance. Have had so many students who can play a million scales and cannot play with a band, as they don't know what to play and surely cannot solo. This has brought this lack of chordal tone approach way of teaching to my attention in the later years. They need more pattern work for the rock-funk too, as very few have the multitude of ideas you need to create good funky patterns (speaking of notes here, not slapping which isn't done in LA much anymore, it's sort of passe here). In just a few lessons, one can get their chordal approaches together to function very well in bands, and that is the ideal. As I get them in either funk (notes) or jazz soloing, I do give them the necessary two scales (only) that they need. The arpeggios, chordal tones, are where it's at, also the stacked triads. Modes are very limited, they use the ii6 chord exclusively and don't flow at all like the chordal scale notes, and audiences are now so tired of hearing that limited self-serving musician stuff, it's a good way to close a business up I think. Good jazz is from the subs, the patterns, the pivot b5 lines, so many creative chordal sub things, plus the flow of the communications, the silences, the statements/answers (some call this "call and response") it's an art form, not a show-off of fast licks, but a way of communicating with each other and the audience. Bird took the classical studies and started playing the jazz around the chordal notes and mathematical substitutions from the altered chords: A7-9 has the same notes as Bbo, things like that. Blues and rock etc. have a slightly different theory setup, blues licks which are derived from the minor chord (Cm aka as Eb7 or Ebm) which is really is the C7#9 chord with passing tones, this is not jazz subs at all, nor the stacked triads of Jazz (i.e. G7 is stacked in triad form: G Bm-5 Dm F Am C Em etc., thus you use the Dm7 for G7, you use the Fmaj7 for G7 etc.) and all the mathematical genius that goes with that. Bird and others like Horace Silver, Hampton Hawes, other innovators like that would be in the class of Albert Einstein (or really Einstein's wife who did so much for Albert) if they had have been scientists, it's mathematics in jazz, in 2's and 3's, not hard if you know your chordal tones, but takes awhile. '

Hi Everyone, Ive never introduced myself on her which is not good! SO much information here its great. Im a jazz fan/aspiring musician and currently playing an overwater fretless through a markbass combo amp. Phil

Hi Everyone, Im new to the world of bass chat and loving it so far! SO much information. Im a jazz fan/aspiring musician and currently playing an overwater fretless through a markbass combo amp. Phil