Pete Academy

Just thought I'd mention this: A young girl came into our shop last Saturday looking for a beginner bass pack - bass, amp, etc. I gave them at least an hour of my time, which included: A detailed run through 3 basses - a Squier Affinity P, Yamaha RBX, Cort active. All around £200. I explained the difference between single and dual pickup configuartion, and the active tone controls on the Cort. Ran through the features on the amp - an Ashdown Tourbus 10w. Showed her the correct way to hold the bass, right and left hand positioning etc. Because her Dad was into Cream, I gave an impromptu lesson on how to play Sunshine Of Your Love. Demo'd the difference between playing with fingers and pick. While she was practising the aforementioned bass part, I showed the parents some books and explained how to read tab. The parents commented on fingerprints being all over the bass (!!), so I took ot and polished it. When she chose a strap (chucked in for free), I adjusted it to the correct length. Answered every one of the million quiestions they threw at me (Secret Shoppers?). The whole sale came to £244. Nuff said.

[quote name='Machines' post='545092' date='Jul 20 2009, 08:00 AM']It's Gaz isn't it ? Looks a bit like Yoda.[/quote] Who?

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='544945' date='Jul 19 2009, 09:42 PM']Well, that's because I've been out and about, coming back to find your posts above. Yes, it's true. PM'd and awaiting response. [/quote] Oops, sorry if I upset you. The whole episode in PMT did seem a bit extreme, if not unbelievable. I know the manager really well, which was why I was so interested.

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='544686' date='Jul 19 2009, 02:05 PM']It's weird how one's experience can vary. I went into PMT Birmingham asking after a particular [i]tuner[/i] pedal to be told by one of their more 'mature' people that they didn't stock that brand, that the brand was crap, that "[i]only an idiot [/i]would want to buy one" and that he'd rather "step on dog sh*t than one of those". He then followed this up with the observation that "If you still want one of those, you can go somewhere else. If you want a proper [i]fuzz[/i] pedal, you should try one of these". As you might imagine, I was a bit displeased. A couple of his mates were stood in the background having a good smirk while he delivered this peroration, so I suspect it wasn't the first time he'd gone off on one. Having reminded him it was a [i]tuner[/i] I was after, I bollocked him savagely in front of his colleagues for a very long five minutes. As compensation for "your rudeness and stupidity" I then gouged him for a "proper" tuner pedal at 40% of their tag price - what my 'crap' choice of pedal would have cost. Swings and roundabouts.[/quote] Hmm...you seem to have gone a bit quiet.

[quote name='BurritoBass' post='544831' date='Jul 19 2009, 06:12 PM']I certainly feel raising the height of your speaker will put you in a better place.[/quote] I totally agree...but you have to trust the sound guy is getting you a good off stage sound.

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='544686' date='Jul 19 2009, 02:05 PM']It's weird how one's experience can vary. I went into PMT Birmingham asking after a particular [i]tuner[/i] pedal to be told by one of their more 'mature' people that they didn't stock that brand, that the brand was crap, that "[i]only an idiot [/i]would want to buy one" and that he'd rather "step on dog sh*t than one of those". He then followed this up with the observation that "If you still want one of those, you can go somewhere else. If you want a proper [i]fuzz[/i] pedal, you should try one of these". As you might imagine, I was a bit displeased. A couple of his mates were stood in the background having a good smirk while he delivered this peroration, so I suspect it wasn't the first time he'd gone off on one. Having reminded him it was a [i]tuner[/i] I was after, I bollocked him savagely in front of his colleagues for a very long five minutes. As compensation for "your rudeness and stupidity" I then gouged him for a "proper" tuner pedal at 40% of their tag price - what my 'crap' choice of pedal would have cost. Swings and roundabouts.[/quote] Is this actually true?!!

[quote name='skankdelvar' post='544686' date='Jul 19 2009, 02:05 PM']It's weird how one's experience can vary. I went into PMT Birmingham asking after a particular [i]tuner[/i] pedal to be told by one of their more 'mature' people that they didn't stock that brand, that the brand was crap, that "[i]only an idiot [/i]would want to buy one" and that he'd rather "step on dog sh*t than one of those". He then followed this up with the observation that "If you still want one of those, you can go somewhere else. If you want a proper [i]fuzz[/i] pedal, you should try one of these". As you might imagine, I was a bit displeased. A couple of his mates were stood in the background having a good smirk while he delivered this peroration, so I suspect it wasn't the first time he'd gone off on one. Having reminded him it was a [i]tuner[/i] I was after, I bollocked him savagely in front of his colleagues for a very long five minutes. As compensation for "your rudeness and stupidity" I then gouged him for a "proper" tuner pedal at 40% of their tag price - what my 'crap' choice of pedal would have cost. Swings and roundabouts.[/quote] Was it a Behringer you were after, by any chance?

[quote name='Mokl' post='544328' date='Jul 18 2009, 09:14 PM']I must say that having worked in music retail for far too long now, this thread comes as a breath of fresh air. We have continual problems with people displaying a complete lack of respect for our instruments and stock, thinking it's okay to abuse them as their own and then leave, never having had any intention of making a puchase. We always stress the need for our customers to try out the gear properly and do our best to make sure that they are happy with their purchase, and we are usually more than happy to allow anybody to try anything they want. A polite "would it be okay to try this?" before ripping that Rickenbacker from the display goes a long way! The one observation I would make is that I would not necessarily single out a particular age group as being more guilty of poor manners or disrespectful behaviour. In fact, in my experience it is often the older guys who come in (guys who really should know better), who will start yanking acoustics off the wall and in the process bouncing them off the Clavinova's. As a small, independent shop, you would really not believe how much this can cost us. Irritatingly we often only pick up dings and small areas of damage at the time of sale, which inevitably involves us having to throw in free stuff or reduce the price. Anwyay, let's not give the kids too hard a time. More recently I find that the younger guys and gals that frequent our shop are often very appreciative of our time and attention.[/quote] Good point.

I have to have my speaker cabs high up, so the top 4 x 8" cab is right by my ear. If it's lower I can't hear the higher or mid frequencies properly, due to years of having my ears pummelled. Sounds like you have a frequency clash - boosting mids is very important.

The scourge of retail is commission - it creates a cuthroat attitude amogst the salespeople. When I worked for Sound Control and we were on commission, with silly targets, it was one for all and all for one. I've stood a few feet from a salesman, twiddling my thumbs, while he was trying to sell a beginner a bass. He refused to ask me to attend to the customer because he thought it was an easy sale. I heard him talk absolute bollocks and demo the bass by playing something crap. In the end the customer walked out. I told my colleague that he could have asked me to talk to the customer, without incurring any commission on my part. In my opinion, any larger music store should have specialist staff - end of story.

[quote name='Doddy' post='543421' date='Jul 17 2009, 05:25 PM']That's great that is Spartacus. I'm glad the store guy stood his ground. On another note,I once went into a music shop in Birmingham that I'd been to a number of times, and was denied access to the guitar department upstairs because I was wearing a full length jacket. I didn't quite understand this as they had no problem with me checking out the acoustics or the drums. And,this was only 18 months ago,so I wasn't a young scallywag. I went somewhere else and spent money instead.[/quote] Scallywag? Now that's a term you don't hear much of these days.

[quote name='Doddy' post='543421' date='Jul 17 2009, 05:25 PM']That's great that is Spartacus. I'm glad the store guy stood his ground. On another note,I once went into a music shop in Birmingham that I'd been to a number of times, and was denied access to the guitar department upstairs because I was wearing a full length jacket. I didn't quite understand this as they had no problem with me checking out the acoustics or the drums. And,this was only 18 months ago,so I wasn't a young scallywag. I went somewhere else and spent money instead.[/quote] A few years ago I went into a shop in Brum to try out some Ashdown cabs. It was first thing in the morning, and I stood around for ages waiting for someone to speak to. Eventually I found someone, who was very uncooperative. He pointed me in the direction of the gear and told me to plug the cabs in myself. Afterwards I tried to get a price but gave up after half an hour of waiting around.

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='543417' date='Jul 17 2009, 05:17 PM']I agree with you pete. I wonder if it isn't helped by the way in large music shops the guitars are laid out. SOund control and the like seem to operate like supermarkets, with a similar large stock, lots of variations of the same thing (ie 5 US P basses) and similar low paid young staff. The stock then is a commodity and nothing seems special. Contrast this to the small independant music shop with its better staff, more specialist stock and friendlier attitude. tesco is winning that war though. One of the best ways I have seen it done was Guitarguitar in edinburgh. You walk in and the counter is next to the door. Politeness forces you to say hello as you are welcomed. Imediatly, and in a friendly way ppl ask if they can help and to give them a shout if you want to try anything. Human contact and in a positive way re affiriming- dont touch anything with out me saying so, you wander around- but the good stuff, the expesive stuff is in the back, up a wee step and in a carpeted area. You know this is the expensive stuff and so are almost afraid to breath.[/quote] I totally agree. We have a similar setup, and try to acknowledge customers as they enter the store.

[quote name='fatgoogle' post='543398' date='Jul 17 2009, 05:00 PM']Ill agree with you there Pete, i do try not to, as i do reliase how much instruments cost, and am not going to bang around instruments. But i can jst hope that you dont discriminate all young people like this.[/quote] I am definitely not discriminating against all young people, just those who have a lack of respect.

[quote name='silddx' post='543369' date='Jul 17 2009, 04:38 PM']I think you now have a ingrained attitude towards young people you can't get past. fatgoogle doesn't strike me as someone who would abuse your instruments uninvited. He's complaining he's being unfairly stereotyped and it is, frankly, discriminatory. Everyone's a loser in this situation. There's rudeness from all quarters, not just young people. You said yourself adults behave bloody stupidly in your shop. It's a basic lack of respect some people have for others and others' property. It's always been the same. I remember the same sh*t going down in Coventry 35 years ago. If anything it was worse. I was on the tube a couple of days ago, and a 50ish year old blind woman got on. All seats were taken but only a couple of people were standing. She stood holding the hand rail for two stops before a bloke with headphones on noticed her and offered her his seat which she gratefully accepted. The other eleven people on this carriage section ranged from teenaged to middle aged, black, white, and brown. Most had seen her, all but one ignored her. I see rudeness from all types everyday, and kindness from all types every day. It's really not fair to blame one section of society for your problems.[/quote] I see your point, but I'll stick to my guns here. There's always been lack of respect, but it's worse than ever nowadays. The majority of damage done to our instruments is by younger people.

Another problem in music shops is the old commission factor. The basic wage will be low, so the commission makes all the difference. However, this also means that any of the staff will have a go at selling you something, despite their lack of knowledge. In the land of the blind etc...a complete beginner can be easily bluffed by a non- bass player.

[quote name='cheddatom' post='543353' date='Jul 17 2009, 04:25 PM']That's you who I asked to re-string my bass but when I came back you tried to charge me for a full set up and fret re-dress and wouldn't let me have my bass back until I went to the cash point to draw out the extra £30!! Only kidding, that was 10 years ago, so probably a different bass guy at AOS Stoke then.[/quote] Ooh that's bad. Defo wasn't me...I couldn't sleep for the guilt. I once heard of a guy charging someone eight quid for changing the top E string on a guitar.

I couldn't agree more, Mr Blob. Bad service = no sale. That goes for you at PC World who told me the modem I wanted to connect the missus's laptop to the internet was probably too difficult for me to use, so he recommended I pay ninety quid for them to come and do it. A mate did it for nothing. That's you at the Orange phone shop who told me she couldn't help with anything because my contract doesn't run out until September. That's me going with Vodafone, then. That's you at the Halifax who was trying to upgrade my current account and could have given me the facts in 5 minutes, but blabbed on with small talk so the appointment lasted the full half hour she was allocated. I could go on.

The point I'm making is how much young people have changed in attitude over the years. Personally I don't care if you're nine or ninrty - if you come up to me and ask politely if you can try an instrument, I will oblige. I've seen adults go over to a line of £1600+ Les Pauls and ignore the signs, pulling them off the hangers and bashing them about. I've seen adults go up to two grand Taylors and strum the strings while it's hanging on the wall (what IS that about?!), thus knocking the guitar against the wall. I too have been that annoying kid in the late 70s asking to try out basses in shops. But I did always ask first. I agree you can't tell who or who isn't going to be your future customer who will go on to spend thousands when he or she gets older. But the same lack of respect that's prevalent everywhere - on the bus, in the classroom, on the street, where youngsters are untouchable - has undoubtedly crept into music stores. The previous young poster who's bleating about rude staff etc reminds me of Kevin the teenager, and how hard done he is in the shop. How would you like it if I came to your house uninvited and started playing your bass? All I say is show the staff some respect, do your practise and jam with your mates at home or rehearsal, and you might just get better treatment.

[quote name='cheddatom' post='542957' date='Jul 17 2009, 09:54 AM']+1 We used to go to Academy of sound in Stoke on saturdays and kill an hour playing stuff. We had no idea it was annoying or costly to the business. Kids will never see the bigger picture. You have to spell it out for them. IMO if you have signs on the guitars saying "please ask before playing" and they still play the guitars, the signs are not good enough. Get them around the strings or something. If a kid takes the sign off, then surely you could kick him out. If the sign's there, it's pretty clear you should not be playing without asking, even to a kid. I would never have done that.[/quote] Regarding the acoustic guitars, it was getting so bad that we went from a few signs around the area to a sign on each guitar. And some of them still ignored the signs. Whereas there used to be 3 or 4 kids at a time coming in, now it's not unusual to see 10 or 15. On the day I turned the power off there were about 2 pianos with 3 kids on each one at the same time, playing different 'tunes'; 3 electronic kits were being played, with not one kid asking for a pair of headphones, and if they didn't have sticks they would bash them with their hands; most of the synths were being played; someone was bashing on the handsonic-type kit. I tried to tell them but the noise was so bad they couldn't hear me, and those that could completely ignored me.

I think the main problem with music shops offering bad service is the inexperience of the staff. Most shops employ younger people who will work for a low wage but are seduced by the job being 'rock and roll', when really it can be quite boring. Believe it or not, after some time you can become desensitised and not want to see another instrument, let alone play it. I may be wrong, but I would hazard a bet that anyone who has had problems, has encountered a younger member of staff. Saying that, it can go the opposite way, with the older boss having served his countless years in the business, which have rendered him a miserable cynic. I worked for one of these people. One day a young kid came in and asked to try a fairly expensive combo. The boss grudgingly let him, then after about 2 minutes went over and said, 'Right, that's enough.' The young lad fished his hand in his pocket, pulled out a wad of notes, and bought the amp there and then. You never can tell.

[quote name='Doddy' post='542608' date='Jul 16 2009, 09:14 PM']That's one of the reasons why I rarely come in on a Saturday, to be honest. I don't get why a group of kids would go into a music shop en masse and just hang about. Why don't they go back outside bargain booze,where they belong.[/quote] Ha! Nice one!

I have to say, the younger kids treat our store like a youth club on Saturday afternoons. It's SO frustrating. Yes I know they're all the buyers of the future, but at this point they think it's a toy shop, not a music shop.

The thing is, not everyone is like you. I will help any customer out and give them good advice, but when you have someone who just wants to kill half an hour trying out an all-black bass, slapping the hell out of and scratching it to f##k, you have to draw the line.

I've read a few threads about bad experiences with music shops, but hear me out on this. If you go up to the counter and politely ask to try out any instrument, you should be able to. No question. If the salesperson makes a lame excuse for you not being able to, then I don't blame you for walking out. However, I have to say this: In my many years of working in music retail, I've never known such disrespectfulness amongst younger people as I have in the last couple of years. You have to realise that to stock a music store is a big investment, costing many thousands. Gone are the days when we had sale-or-return. The shop has to pay for everything. In our store we have a well-stocked acoustic department, including Martins and Taylors worth a lot of money. We have had kids coming in droves, heading straight for these guitars, pulling them off the wall, and jamming, with absolutley no intention of buying. A few buckle marks later and we have to knock a substantial amount of money off the guitars. This has resulted in us having to put a 'Please ask before trying' sign on each guitar. But still these kids take no notice whatsoever. One particular Saturday we had about 20 kids 'trying out' pianos, guitars, electronic drum kits etc all at once. Not one of them asked beforehand. I ended up having switch off the mains supply. There is absolutley no excuse for bad service. Believe me, I hate it when I go into stores myself and have to put up with surly arrogant staff (PC World anyone?). But you need to spend a few weeks in retail to see what we are up against.