GreeneKing

I’m not talking ‘loose and stylish’, just getting the structure wrong and most commonly cuttings bits short. To my way of thinking that is making a mistake. He doesn’t see it as a mistake but his ‘playing by feel’. Perhaps a bigger issue is his tantrums every time I try to say anything about it.

Well, I wrote what I thought was a fair communication. I read it to my lady who made several wise suggestions. I re-wrote it making it quite gentle and giving my view without rubbishing his. It said how his loose ‘feel’ approach to song structure wasn’t compatible with other musicians. It ended with a comment about wanting this sorted in a good way. I’ve just read his reply. He’s countered my opinion by saying that his ‘style’ is okay with other musicians he’s played with and that we’re musically incompatible and we should call it a day. He’s spat his dummy out again. Sadly, if this can’t be sorted it not only means letting friends down re the gig, it also scuppers my only avenue for playing alongside others.

We haven’t been a gigging band for long, just a bunch of guys meeting up for a jam regularly. So there was no need to address his inconsistent structure.

He was sympathetic to my view.

I'm compiling a txt as I type Hopefully diplomatically. I'll re-read it before I press send.

I was chatting to the leads bro who I met in the street, our singer. I realise that the lead is essentially a bedroom player. He has no concept of what it means to play with other musicians. Of course he doesn't see song structure as an important issue because when you're playing in your bedroom it doesn't matter. His guitar is too loud, he thinks only of his part and is completely unaware that his mistakes are wrong footing other members in the band and basically hanging them out to dry. I'm fed up with him saying on a song ending, that sounded great when I spent two bars trying to adjust from playing the chorus to the outtro. He's oblivious. Next practice I'm going to have a word, I'll tell him beforehand that tantrums aren't acceptable and explain a few facts around being in a band. Either that or I message him beforehand.

Just to paint an accurate picture of ‘the band’. For the past couple of years we’ve been a bunch of guys meeting up once a month to work on some covers purely for our own entertainment. No ambitions of gigging. Ive been honest in that I’m up for it but failing that it’s a way to improve my musicianship and give myself a focus. This upcoming gig may well be a one off. If we can sort things out it may lead to more gigs. It may even all fall apart. Opportunities are limited so I hope not.

Absolutely

In my first band I generally kept the song structure and the rest of the guys were okay with that. Expected it even.

Not necessarily. I don’t think it’s just a volume thing. I could be loud and still be lost in the mix. I’d describe the bass as focussed and loud enough considering the need to be heard alongside the lead. If he turned down a little then so could I. I’m not in a competition but sometimes I can’t hear the bass clearly when I’m in front of my amp. It’s almost as if he doesn’t understand the role of or need for a bass.

Spot on Mart. We were just that until I found us a gig. The lead did the singing before and now his bro is onboard for the gig. The drummer gigs anyway and the Rhythm isn't so keen. I'm probably the keenest to perform in front of an audience. It's bound to produce stress but I see that as a positive. People who just meet up for a jam can be quite selfish and focussed on their own stuff methinks.

The Rhythm guitarist is low key and can hardly be heard a lot of the time. He's the sort of guy that likes to turn up and take part and doesn't want to 'rock the boat'. He has mentioned that he finds it annoying but as the bassist I seem to be more focussed on song structure than everyone else. There's a bit of 'does it really matter' attitude going on. When I'm having to sort out what I'm playing and where we are mid bar then yes, to me it matters. It sounds bad and I'm the one that stands out as getting it wrong to anyone listening.

My bass cuts through into the mix really well despite the lead being too loud. I really think that if I turned my bass down he wouldn’t notice, so ‘lost in the sauce’ is he. Even with only one 8ohm cab my GK Legend 800 is operating with the volume down around 2 of 10. When he expresses delight at how good a song went he has no idea that I spent a couple of bars not playing due to him spontaneously modifying the song structure. I think that the root of the problem is him focussing on just lead with the volume meaning it overwrites the band.

Thank you Matt.

Indeed.

If we do get to the gig, and I hope we do with smiles on our faces, we will be professional. Of that I’m sure.

I meant Steve B. I spent many a formative year in Pompey and the surrounding territory.

Now I'm curious, those Waterlooville lads

Just to be specific. The issues are usually around the lead ending a section of the song a phrase or two early and going onto the chorus/fill/verse/outro too soon. The drummer just accommodates as I guess drummers often can without anyone noticing. Rhythm is drowned out anyway (except when playing a solo) but does recognise the issue. At the end of the song the lead usually says 'that was great/tight/sounded good' etc. with no idea that I was out of the mix for a bar or two (again) trying to sort it out. It ruins my enjoyment of playing well. I think that in a gigging scenario it's me who'll look to be getting it wrong to the punters. I get criticised for being too loud at times and that is down to me wanting to be heard in the mix. I did spend one session behind the lead's amp and I had to move right up to the kit to hear it! I also ended up with a headache and nausea. The last session I went the other side of the kit to be with the Rhythm and he moved to alongside the lead leaving me to myself. It was bliss. I could hear the drums. I got told off for being too loud (the drummers wife who comes along) but I feel that I'm forced to compete with the lead who been asked time and time again to turn it down. Last session I was told I was turning the bass up and I honestly didn't touch it. We had a recording and it was supposed to show that the vocals were muffled and overpowered. The trouble was that the recorder (a phone I believe) was placed behind the PA that was facing the band and it was getting the full blast of the backline. I pointed this out and was ignored The bass sounded just right to my ears btw.

I think this is a very accurate picture. I’m seen as the problem here at least by the lead and possibly the drummer. The singer is fairly even handed around it all despite it being his brother. Don’t get me wrong, the lead can be a pleasant fella and is most of the time. It is however, if only in feel, his band. I’ve been happy to run with that. Hopefully we can find a way ahead. I suppose what I really struggle with is being made to look an eejit because of his off piste playing.

My previous post may give a hint about band dynamics. I'm the incomer. The gig is driven by me. My local I.A.M. Motorcycle Group has it's annual dinner and I was asked if we'd play. Otherwise we would probably have carried on as a perennial practice band. I was also hoping that it would lead to more gigs. Instead we're in danger of coming apart at the seams!

What a great response. Thank you. As a bassist I have the confidence of a gnat. But (never start a sentence with but), I've improved a lot and I can hold down a pretty solid bassline. I've been playing for over 20 years, much of that at home by myself. I'm 67 so started late. So I don't sell myself well and I couldn't improvise if my life depended on it. In this 20+ years I've played in 3 bands and only done 3 gigs (which were an absolute blast) all of which were with the first band of guys all older than me, many years back. I've come on a long way since then. I'm the oldest in this lot but none are that young. If I turned up, cranked up my amp to dominate the band and then did my own thing occasionally with some of the songs (through error methinks not creative effect) I would get comments made about it along the lines of 'you need to sort yourself out'. If I then had a tantrum I would get asked to walk. The the lead, drummer and rhythm have been in a band and gigged before. Rhythm only really wants to turn up once a month to play with other folk, stuff he likes and doesn't have to do any work on. He's not keen on gigging. The drummer (who is in other gigging bands) is tight with the lead and from the looks exchanged between them there's stuff being said that I'm not a party to. My options around here in terms of opportunity are limited. I don't want to go back to the bass 'shed', the last time that happened I gave up for a couple of years. I'm going to say my bit along the lines of the above the next time we get together but I suspect I'll get nothing but another hissy fit. I love playing. My limited experience of gigging leaves me wanting more. Bands are ego-fests. I'm an open and honest sort of bloke. The two seem to clash. Peter

The singer is his Bro. They practice together a lot.

I play in a covers band. We've been playing together in a loose way for a couple of years and now we have our first gig in January. Things are okay. Having the gig to work towards has its benefits (I'm feeling very focussed by it) but it's proved a little stressful. We have a lead who plays very loud. Rhythm can barely be heard at times but my bass and rig allows me to cut through the mix pretty well. The lead 'drives' the band and sometimes I think that if I stopped playing he'd carry on regardless. We have a range of abilities and willingness to put work in. I spend many hours a week working on the material. He says he plays by 'feel'. What that sometimes means is that he'll add a few bars into the structure of the song here and remove a few there. This means that I have to think on my feet at times I can get a bit lost getting back into the song. I find this frustrating and solvable. I don't mind if we play the song 'wrong' so long as we all know and we're consistent. In previous bands I would hang in with the correct song structure, verse, chorus, bridge etc and the band would hang in with me. When I raise this the lead can get very angry. To the extent that the drummer had to take him outside to calm him down on one occasion. I'm not rude, I just suggest that we need to get the structure sorted. He will occasionally make a comment on my bass line and I'll simply listen and sort it. I think that he may have issues with perceived criticism and that's causing his simmering rage. I feel that it's disrespectful to 'do your own thing' and expect others to fit in 'on the hoof'. It's not Jazz and I'm an enthusiastic bassist with a limit to my talent. It's also easily sorted to my way of thinking. I tried messaging him to sort it out and his reply was, basically it's not a priority and we can work on it later. I feel like this stuff is the basics and needs sorting straight away. Any thoughts? I'm not a seasoned pro and bands are I find hard work at times (too much ego going on). Peter