TimR

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1391532869' post='2358258'] Really? I thought everyone has a duty of care for their own actions? Besides, who cares whose faull it is if you electrocute yourself by plugging into a faulty PA or mains socket. I suppose it'll give your family someone to blame, but it won't help you will it? So how can you be sure your equipment complies as soon as you plug it into an unknown mains socket or PA? Again, it might be someone else's responsibility but shouldn't we be more concerned with the danger rather than the blame? Yes, these are daft and extreme examples, but that's how daft and extreme these things get when examined in minute detail and we embrace a blame culture along with associated liabilities. [/quote] As Nigel says. It is reasonable to expect a wall socket in a place of work, where employees or contractors are likely to be using it, to be correctly wired and periodically tested. How many of us inspect the kitchens in a restaurant before we eat there?

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1391524874' post='2358117'] So anyone can just make up their own policy as regards testing and in the event of an incident it is then up to the courts to decide if the policy that someone has invented was proper for the work they were carryng out? I thought there would be more formal guidelines than this. [/quote] No the person 'making up' their own policy will have a full understanding of their own equipment and what is in the Regulations. The court will use the regulations to decide if your policy was adequate. So feel free to do your own testing and put your own stickers on. It's pretty straightforward isn't it?

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1391524027' post='2358095'] So you PAT test something once and then assume it will remain in that condition forever? At work we have a system where testing is done annually on most items except computer related which are only done every 2 years. I assumed that was some sort of legal requirement but maybe not then. [/quote] Your work will have written a policy that states when they are going to test. They must then follow the policy they have written. It's a practicality thing. If you have 1 PC in a small office that never moves are you going to ever PAT test it? Why? You'll buy a new one before the old one become dangerous. Just write in your policy PC changed every three years and visual check every 6months. Job done. If you're on tour gigging nearly every night for a year in a different venue you'll have additional testing regime put in place that includes visually examining cables every week. No point in annual testing if a lot of the leads will be dead inside a month.

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1391523438' post='2358084'] So on the safety side alone, rather than contractual obligation, how many here PAT test every electrical item in their house very interval that HSE rules require? [/quote] There is no interval specified.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1391519371' post='2357997'] @TimR I understand all that. It was xilddx's comment that confused me. Oggiesnr is right that PAT testing is just a cost of 'doing business' and there's no arguing against it really, but there comes to a point where the cost of doing business, both the cost and hassle, eventually becomes more trouble than it's worth. Camels and straws and all that. Thankfully, we've never been asked for PAT certificates. Do any bands ever ask to see the venue's certificate of electrical safety or the PA system certification? After all, it's all very well to check your own gear for, say, earth continuity, but how do you know the venue wiring is providing an earth connection. Where does it all end? [/quote] It's not my legal responsibility to check someone else's equipment. It's their responsibility as owner of a premises where the public will be present to comply with the law. It's my responsibility to make sure that equipment I own and operate complies. If you find a pub with dodgy electrics, report them to your local environmental health or even the HSE. You don't need fake labels, just buy the real ones. So long as your indemnity insurance covers your testing you'll be fine.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1391516532' post='2357933'] Does the 'portable equipment' actually have to be connected though? [/quote] You should end up with two stickers and two entries in your book. One for the amp and one for the lead.

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1391518390' post='2357981'] ... and add fraud to the list of problems in the event things go wrong (or even if they haven't gone wrong but you get found out). PAT testing is a cost of doing business just like putting diesel in the van to get to the gig (yet to see anyone advocating using red diesel as a way to save money even though it would it would save a lot more than pratting about with false PAT testing). Steve [/quote] and no one would die either.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1391516532' post='2357933'] Does the 'portable equipment' actually have to be connected though? [/quote] Depends on what the equipment is and what you are testing. If you have a metal cased amp then you should check that the earth in the plug is continuous to the amp case. But you use a lower setting so if it's not you don't fry the electronics. Hence a course is best if you have no idea what you're doing or what you should be testing for. We found an old amp that had its earth disconnected and never put back, they used to do that in the old days to prevent earth loop hums. Extremely dangerous!

Because there are different tests to do on different equipment. Lights, toasters, heaters, kettles have different tests to sensitive electronics equipment.

We tend to listen to the CD during a rehearsal. Jam along to it to make sure the key works and to get an idea of whether it'll work. Then we go away and come back the next week and play it. Works with one or two tunes a week. But not really loads more as we don't all have the time.

I had a local electrician do ours was less than £20.00. I would just PAT the cables you regularly use plus a few spares and 'retire' the others. I found I was taking huge cases of gear to gigs that I never used. The PAT kind of bought this to my attention.

Don't forget to breathe and relax.

Lojo. Just reread this. Are you in a band that you feel isn't coming together as quickly as you think they should? Sometimes it's because you don't have a gig lined up. Then people become lazy and don't do the homework and are unfocused. Maybe you need to suggest you book a gig and see if anyone pushes back. That's a sure sign they're just in it for 'hanging out in a band'. If everyone agrees and suddenly ups their game then it's a goer. Really you have to trust your instincts and experience on this. Can the band play well together and just need to get tight or are certain members just not up to it.

Yes. I'm very careful where I put the stands, paying attention to where the legs go.

For 30 songs? Assuming you can't get through all 30 numbers in each rehearsal. 4

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1390986007' post='2351890'] Domestic leads are white, so whatever you get, go for the professional look and get it in black. Then the leads won't stand out on a dark stage. [/quote] The op is using them at home. B&Q ones are fine, not sure why they need to be surge protected though. Maybe he lives in a lightning prone area? I bought a bunch of black 4gang sockets from our local wholesaler and several meters of black flex and made up a few for gigs. Some 5m, 3m, 1m and some 30cm ones. Makes setting up lot more flexible as you can position the power pretty much where you need it with minimum excess cable.

Why do you need to power 8-10 gadgets at the same time? While those transformers are plugged in they're still using power and heating up. If it's for pedals, maybe look at a single power distribution unit.

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1390922981' post='2351342'] ... In other news; in the future, as now, dancing will take place to the accompaniment of pre-recorded music; no change there, given that so many of today's bands are completely undanceable. [/quote] There you go. Girls come to dance, boys come to watch girls dance. If you want a big audience there's your answer.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1390912782' post='2351122'] Perhaps. So why does it seem to still be so prevalent? [/quote] Chancers with gift of the gab? Most of us are aware that to get gigs you need a cd or video and enough front to go into a venue and persuade them you're the next big thing. I think the promoters need to wise up a bit and check out the bands properly. As posted above a 'good' band is one that people want to come and listen to. The true test of that isn't how many friends they can bring along from out of town, it's how many locals turn up to see them next time they play.

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1390910075' post='2351073'] So what are you suggesting, some sort of union closed shop that only allows 'good' bands to play anywhere? [/quote] Not really. It's a comment in the state of music. When venue owners are complaining that it's the bands that are the problem, the venues are the ones that should be exercising some sort of quality control. It's all well and good packing your venue with band A's 'fans' bussed in from out of town one week, but then you can't moan when the next week no one turns up to see band B. It's a short sighted business plan doomed from the start. Most 'hobby' musicians are very unorganised.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1390902312' post='2350970'] ... I turn up at a gig 2 or 3 times a year and expect the promoter and the other bands to have done a good enough job in between so that the venue has a core audience. We actively promote ourselves and the name on the poster is our guarantee of a good gig. An audience will come out for us but not if they have to put up with crap bands in a crap gig for the 15 weeks between our appearances. [/quote] That's pretty much how it should work.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1390898335' post='2350916'] ... This is NOT a great time to be a working professional musician with a family, and being a professional musician is NOT a grown-up job IMHO. I genuinely mean no offence to anyone on Basschat in saying this, and particularly not to any professional musicians. I'm not criticising, I'm actually sympathising. [/quote] Whoa! Be careful there. You mean playing in a band on a Saturday night in a pub is not a grown up job. All the professional musicians I know work full time in music. A few of them play in pub bands for fun, but none of them play in pub bands for the money. They do sessions, teach, wedding bands, luthering, buy/sell instruments... So going back to the plumber analogy, they don't fit a boiler once a month for £6k, they mend leaks, change washers, install washing machine, unblock sinks.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1390862572' post='2350740'] Same applies here Jack, I get paid in the punk covers band, don`t in the other two, but enjoy all bands equally. It`s my hobby. Blokes playing sunday morning football as their hobby don`t get paid (I don`t think?) so I consider it very fortunate that I can get paid doing my hobby. [/quote] Who pays for the pitches and changing rooms?

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1390861255' post='2350713'] But the 20% (more like 5%, maybe lower) who are actually really good don't get paid either. TBH with the new band I'm putting together this year I'm not intending to gig at all unless someone offers me money to do it. We'll be recording and trying to build a buzz that way and then see if the small festivals want some. I can't be arsed with spending all night at a sh*t venue to not even break even any more. And no I don't want to join a wedding band. I'd rather not gig than do that. Actually I'd rather slit my wrists. [/quote] Playing in wedding bands is a very good way to learn very quickly how to be professional. Anyway, my point is the promoters are trying to make a fast buck. They're not thinking long term. Get a bunch of good bands on your books by paying the good ones and not paying the bad ones. Then you'll get more people at your venues who want to listen to good new music, instead of relying on a constant turnover of bands bringing their mates 200miles in a dodgy bus. Then you can charge on the door to limit the numbers and make even more money. It's called building and running a successful business.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1390851775' post='2350444'] Outstanding work gents. So nobody here plays music because they enjoy playing music? If you're not getting paid, it's no fun, right? Ah well, must just me be then. Again. [/quote] I think you completely missed my point. If you continue to expect plumbers to fix your leaks for free, don't be surprised if you run out if good plumbers. The thing is you're never playing for free.