Baloney Balderdash

It didn't to me. I actually originally bought the Digitech Ricochet to do this job, but I didn't like how it sounded, though the biggest issue with it to me, which was actually determining for why I ended up returning the Ricochet and getting the Sub'N'Up Mini instead (in return also discovering that the stock 1 octave up sounding better and more naturally, and how EQ'ing helped getting it to sound even more realistic), was the tracking being considerably worse compared to the Sub'n'Up's, in my experience, effectively completely flawless tracking, as well as the latency of the Ricochet being quite noticeable (the Sub'N'Up got this same problem with it's octave down effect, but since I don't use that it's not an actual issue for me, and the octave up effect that I actually use having basically unnoticeable latency). In my experience there is no way around EQ'ing either the input or output of a signal digitally pitched up 1 whole octave, and ideally both, if you want it to sound as realistic as possible and get rid of the odd and quite obvious digital artifacts that this kind of processing seemingly inevitably will result in, which the Sub'N'Up offers an easy solution to, without need of complicating your routing and need of extra added pedals. Your experience obvious tells you differently, though I don't quite understand how it possibly can. You apparently not actually having tried the Sub'N'Up using the right settings in the Toneprint editor could possibly partially explain why though.

For me it would be a - bass to guitar emulator - version of something like the EHX BASS9 - guitar to bass emulator - pedal. Here's a demo of the EHX BASS9, in case you are not familiar with it : Currently I use a TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini as an always on effect, to emulate that 8 string "octave" bass or fake unison (just an octave higher of course) guitar like effect, and while I can get pretty close with the default polyphic octaver setting and some quite specific EQ'ing, via the Toneprint editor, of the dry input signal that is fed to the octave engine, as well as the octave up output signal, something that deliberately seeks to emulate a realistic guitar or 8 string bass effect for bass would be great, and I would definitely buy such a pedal if it came available on the market.

Interesting, definitely. But unusable to me, since what I use an octaver for it mimicking an 8 string "octave" bass effect, with pairs of respectively bass and octave strings, and the polyphonic octave up on this pedal is just way too synthy, to my ears even more so than the octave up on the EHX POG pedals, which also have that slight organ or synth like vibe to it. Which leaves me at, to my knowledge, the currently absolute best pedal on the market to do that kind of thing, namely the TC Electronic Sub'N'Up, in my case the Mini version, which default polyphonic octave up tone already is more natural sounding than say the POG octave up, and that with some additional quite specific EQ tweaking of the octave engine dry input signal as well as the output octave tone, which the Toneprint editor feature allows for, it is actually possible to remove as good as all odd digital artifacts, and get as close as it is even possible to a natural sounding tone with a signal that is pitched up a whole octave (without further modeling at least, just the basic digital polyphonic octave up function. Would love a bass to guitar emulating version of something like the EHX BASS9 guitar to bass emulation pedal). Also if what I wanted was the classic OC-2 analog octave down synth tone I would properly get the real one or a good clone, as, as some has already pointed out, the warpling, not perfect tracking, artifact that the OC-5 doesn't seem to have, unlike the original OC-2, kind of is part of that classic tone. Otherwise it look like a great pedal. But yeah, if you want to emulate an 8 string bass kind of thing, nothing currently on the market beats the TC Electronic Sub'N'Up, especially if you know how to use the Toneprint editor and how to EQ properly, and if you want the authentic classic OC-2 octave down synth tone the real thing would still probably be the way to go as far as I am concerned.

Amazing song from the soundtrack to the original The Wicker Man movie :

My main 28,6" scale 4 string Ibanez GSRM20 Mikro Bass (I do own a regular 34" scale 4 string Aria Pro II Laser Electric Classic, which used to be my main, an Ibanez 5 string GSRM25 Mikro Bass, both great basses, especially the Aria Pro II, and an extraordinarily crappy 30" scale vintage Egmond bass from the late 60's, too). Currently strung up with a gauge .095 D'Addario NYXL bass string and 3 D'Addario NYXL guitar strings (threaded through the cut off ball ends of bass strings, to not fall through the bridge string holes) of the gauges .070 - .053 - .038, and tuned G1 - C2 - F2 - A#2, 3 half steps above regular 4 string E standard bass tuning, 2 half steps bellow A standard baritone guitar tuning, or simply G standard tuning, and played through an always on TC Electronic Sub'N'Up octaver, blending in an 1 octave above signal with the regular bass signal, giving an effect similar to playing an 8 string "octave" bass, with pairs of respectively bass and octave strings. And this is how this beautiful, lowly, but very much beloved, abomination looks (mahogany body, maple neck, rosewood fretboard, a failed, and then later filled out (though not quite unanimously successfully either), attempt to drill () an extra far neck pickup cavity, various visual mods, a DiMarzio Model P P pickup wired directly to the output jack socket of the bass, and the J pickup from the previously installed EMG Geezer Butler P/J pickup set still there, though disconnected and lowered considerably) :

Mine must be the SWR Triad I, 4 Ohm, 400W bass cab, equipped with 1x15" + 1x10" speaker units + high frequency tweeter horn. The 15" speaker unit receiving the full range of the signal, and then a build in crossover making sure that the 10" unit mostly only receives the part of the signal that is between 100Hz and 5kHz, and that the high frequency tweeter horn then receives everything of the signal above 5kHz, with how much of this part of the signal is fed to the tweeter horn being adjustable via a build in tweeter attenuator. Personally I have the attenuator set at noon, which according to the manual is the "normal setting", effectively meaning an about -4dB cut of the signal fed to the tweeter. I use it for the musical project that has my main focus at the moment, a bass/vocals and drums duo, which music perhaps best can be categorized as a form of progressive psychedelic stoner rock, where I play a just 28,6" scale 4 string Ibanez GSRM20 Mikro bass, tuned G1 - C2 - F2 - A#2, as in G standard tuning, 3 half steps above regular 4 string E standard bass tuning, or 2 half steps bellow A standard baritone guitar tuning, and then beside other momentarily used effects (a heavy high gain distortion with a quite fuzz like quality, consisting of a Turbo Rat clone parallely mixed, via my Boss LS-2, with a Joyo Orange Juice overdrive stacked into a Boss MT-2 Metal Zone, having a big part to play), have the bass signal run through an always on TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini octaver, blending in an 1 octave above signal with the regular bass signal, using the default polyphonic octaver setting, but tweaking the EQ of the input signal of the octave engine as well as the EQ of the pitched signal via the Toneprint editor to make it sound more natural, giving an effect similar to that of playing an 8 string "octave" bass, with pairs of respectively bass and octave strings. Here, beside my Mikro Bass, is my Peavey Solo Special 112, 160W guitar combo amp, having it's build in 12" guitar speaker disconnected and instead hooked up to my SWR Triad I bass cab, only using the poweramp section of the Peavey, having an EHX Black Finger, tube driven optical compressor, acting as much as a fairly light compression effect as as a tube preamp stage, placed at the end of my effect pedals chain, then going into a Zoom MS-70 CDR, exclusively using that as a multi band fully parametric equalizer, utilizing 6 of the multi effect pedal's 2 band parametric bass equalizer models, then finally going into a Behringer MIC100 Tube Ultragain tube preamp, before going into the Peavey's Effects Return effects loop input : The SWR Triad I was one of the first real commercial attempts at making a full range bass cab, it's nowhere anywhere near flat response, but to me that doesn't really matter as I think it got just the right frequency balance as it is, with control of the upper frequency representation by the build in attenuator, as I mentioned previously, setting how much of the signal above 5kHz is fed to the tweeter horn. The low end of the cab is tight and articulated as far as I am concerned, and I guess the cab is fairly mid-rangy, which I suppose makes sense with the part of the signal the build in 10" unit is responsible for, that is everything between 100Hz to 5kHz, and having the 15" unit, as said receiving the full range of the signal, overlap a great deal of those same frequencies, which by the way suits me fine too, as I like a rich mid-range presence. Also, even with the tweeter horn completely off (since the 10" unit will still reproduce frequencies up to 5kHz without much roll off), but especially with the attenuator set at noon, which equals to an attenuation of about -4dB of the signal fed to the tweeter (5kHz and upwards), the extended upper frequency range, compared to say a regular 15" or even a 10" bass cab, gives the tone of the bass a certain light sense of openess or space to it, but seemingly without it causing any loss of sense of tightness, and without it ever sounding harsh in any way, even when using overdrive and distortion (mind though that the lack of perceived harshness may very well be due to me having sculpt the EQ so that it starts to roll off the top end from around 4kHz with a downward slope at about 9dB/Oct). To me this cab reproduce the signal coming from my bass beautifully, couldn't imagine it any better, and even though I guess this type of cab is especially well suited for how I utilize it at the moment, I would not hesitate a moment using it in the context of a more traditional bass setup as well. The´overall sensitivity of the Triad I cab is not really that impressive but still quite good with 98dB SPL @1W1M, and the frequency response spreads wide and deep with –6 db @ 37 Hz and 16 Khz. Here's a link to the original manual: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/621035/Swr-Goliath-Iii.html?page=17#manual (don't mind the link names the Goliath III cab, page 17, as is where the link leads, is the Triad I manual page) Only downside to this cab really is that it weights half a ton (80lbs, or slightly above 36kg, to be exact). Man it's heavy, and it's a bit unusual shape (it's deeper and a bit more boxy than it appears on the photo) makes transporting it even more cumbersome.

Yes, I have noticed you like posts to be kept as short and pointless as possible, so this one is for you: It got action and relief. Does yours too?

The Zoom MS60B has way more effects than the B3, cause it got upgraded with a new patch with a load of new effects unlike the B3, basically the same kind of quality though. The B1-Four got better quality effects, but fewer and with fewer editable parameters, but is about half the size of the B3. As for octaver, get a dedicated one, the ones build into multi effects are never good, I'd recommend the TC Electronic Sub'N'Up or Sub'N'Up Mini. The Zoom MS100BT is discontinued and basically the same as the MS60B, just discontinued and with fewer effects.

Just out of curiosity really, how do you prefer your string action to be, and what is the action and relief on your main bass (if you got one, otherwise about average of your most played basses)? My main is a lowly, but very much beloved, Ibanez GSRM20 Mikro Bass, with a just 28,6" scale length. I have swapped out the cheap stock pickups with some of higher quality, but otherwise I was lucky to get an as good as perfect bass from stock, well beside from the absolutely horrifying bad setup it came with, as well as the stock strings were pretty crappy as well. Measured from the top of the 12th fret to the bottom of the low E string the action is just about 1.9mm (5/64" =/~ 0.075"), and just about 1.4mm (1/16" =/~ 0.055") on the high G string side, with as good as no relief in the neck, something that perhaps translates to something like an about 0.2mm (1/64" =/~ 0.0079") gap or so between the top of the 8th fret and the bottom of the low E string when it is fretted at first and last fret simultaneously. No fret buzz whatsoever on any of the strings no matter where on the fretboard they are fretted when played acoustically with a light touch, though certain strings fretted at certain frets does result in a slight buzz when digging in a bit harder, but again only when played acoustically, when the bass is actually amplified there is absolutely no hints of fret buzz anywhere to be found, though still adjusted sufficiently low for allowing me to force out some clanky attack if desired. But I do kind of have an idea about this kind of setup being about as low as you can go before it starts to affect the tone negatively, to some extend choking the string vibrations, no matter how perfectly leveled the frets might be. Though Regardless if this idea is actually true or not I prefer to be able to feel at least a slight amount to resistance when fretting the strings, for me to be able to feel that I am actually playing, as well as giving me a slightly more focused awareness of the fretboard and my playing. Preferably, for the sake of easy comparison, measure the string action at the 12th fret and the relief at 8th fret, like I did.

Well, except if one is to trust the DiMarzio tone charge with a lot more mids, rated 8 in midrange, whereas the old Split P were just 5, slightly more bass with an 8,5 rating, versus the old Split P's 8, and slightly less treble as well, with a rated 5, versus the old Split P having a rating of 6. So not exactly the exact same. Here's the link to the new Relentless P on DiMarzio's homepage: https://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/standard-bass/relentless-middle And here's the link to the old Split P: https://www.dimarzio.com/pickups/standard-bass/split-p The new Relentless P also have less output and lower resistance than the Split P and all in all seems to be closer to a beefed up Model P pickup than a new take on the Split P, well except of for the blade humbucker part that the Split and Relentless does have in common. I could totally see myself getting a pair of these instead of my Model P, as said it seems like an upgrade with the output, low end and mids turned up slightly and as a bonus promissed to ve totally noiseless, which sadly can't be said about the Model P, even if I love the tone it gives me.

There seem to be a rumor that they are, but the wraps are the same material as regular nickle roundwounds, the cores are different, and the nickle wraps are wrapped closer together. If you do a Google search on "D'Addario NYXL fret wear" you will find a lot of people having picked up this rumor asking but even more people who debunks it based on their own experience. Too early for me to be able to say if they do or not from personal experience, but judging from the above search it seems like there's 1 or 2 claims of increased fret wear being the case, a lot of people picking up on this rumor, asking if it is in fact the case, but then even more people replying that from their personal experience that there is absolutely nothing to it, which to me makes sense, since the NYXL strings are still essential nickle roundwound strings, even if having a different core material and the nickle being wrapped differently. The nickle wraps is still what will meet the frets, and since it's wrapped closer together on the NYXL strings, giving them a slightly smoother feel than regular nickle roundwounds, if anything the opposite should logically be the case, that they perhaps would even wear the frets slightly less.

On a completely different note, your avatar image is from possibly my most favorite YouTube video clip of all times.

Wow! That's flipping beautiful! Really manage to turn that old worn out superficial pop tune cliché into an epic tale of deep existential failure and pain. That saxomophoneist hits a genuine artistic gold vain. No mountain of disasters will ever be big enough to stop him from sharing his truly unique artistic vision with the world! Go Sisyfos! I put all my faith in you! You are the shining sun that puts all other stars to shame!

Most strings will have a similar difference in tension when tuned down a similar amount. Take my advice : The String Tension Pro online app from D'Addario that I linked to in the first reply in this thread really ought to be able to answer your questions.

Some updates has happened since last I posted my pedal effects setup, though this time it seems pretty final for the musical bass project that currently got my main focus, but I will wait with posting it here until I, about time, eventually have bought a proper board to mount the pedals on, that up till now just have been single pedals linked together with patch cables on the floor. If all go as planed this should happen within a month from now. Especially needed now as my bass/drums/vocals solo project has involved into a bass/vocals and drums duo. So at our first rehearsal this coming Tuesday I will have to carry my pedals piled more or less randomly in a bag and patiently assemble my entire pedal effects chain, pedal by pedal, patch cable by patch cable, before we can start playing, and then disassemble and pack down the whole thing again afterwards. In the meantime there are pictures up and a full signal path go through on my forum profile: https://www.basschat.co.uk/profile/50585-baloney-balderdash/?tab=field_core_pfield_1

Use this: http://web.daddario.com/StringTensionPro/Search Dial in the scale length of your bass, your current tuning and the current gauge of your strings, and note the tension displayed in the calculator, then plot in your new tuning and experiment with plotting in different gauges till you hit approximately the same tension in the calculator as the first result. This calculator is tuned for D'Addario strings in specific, but will approximately work for most strings of the same type you chose to plot in (nickle roundwound/stainless steel/flats e.t.c).

Well, that was the basic essence of what I actually wrote about the NYXL strings in my OP, with all context cut away, if you want it even shorter, to the point of pointlessness, here you go: They are great! I like them a lot. Satisfied? Now tell me why you play bass and your favorite strings in 3 words.

"....so I decided giving the D'Addario NYXL nickle roundwounds a try, which got a new high carbon steel alloy core, and with the nickle wound wrapped tighter together, as well as they have slightly lower tension than similar gauged XL nickle wound strings, making then more flexible and the tighter nickle wounds making them feel a bit smoother...." "....But the best thing is the considerably improvement of the tone these strings are responsible for! Beside the D'Addario NYXL having slightly higher output than regular D'Addario XL Nickle strings, and feeling a bit smoother and really nice on the fingers, they have this really snappy edge and punch, though without being too brittle or harsh, but rather having an exquisite clarity, as well as what sounds like a distinct upper mids boost, which I absolutely love. They actually got a bit of that stainless steel strings flavor, but without the fret eating part or the coarse feeling of playing on something reminiscent of a metal file. Time will tell how I like them when they are a bit more broken in and lost that spanking new strings metallic zing, but I can tell already now that even without that fresh string zing I will like the basic tone they deliver a lot more than regular XL strings, and the set of single strings I use is only about 40% more expensive than the XL set I used before, and as the consensus of people who use these strings seems to be that they typically will last up to 3 times longer than regular XL Nickle roundwound strings before they go dull, I'd say it is money well spend." There you go! That'll be 5 quid! Just use Mobile Pay.

So I have been using a set of D'Addario XL Nickle roundwound strings on my main Ibanez GSRM20 Mikro Bass, that I upgraded with a DiMarzio Model P pickup wired directly to the output jack socket, with the J pickup lowered considerably and disconnected, using gauge .095 - .075 - .055 - .040 strings, and tuned in F# standard, 2 half steps above regular 4 string E standard tuning, since I figured out that was best suited for the musical project that has my main focus at the moment, a bass/vocals - drums sort of progressive psychedelic stoner rock duo, where I also run the bass signal through an always on 1 octave up effect, giving an effect somewhat similar to that of an 8 string "octave" bass, with pairs of respectively bass and octave strings (thanks to the editable EQ settings for the signal feed to the octave engine as well as the octave output signal of my TC Electronic Sub'N'Up Mini, and it's as good as flawless polyphonic tracking and exceptional low latency, it actually sound pretty close to natural in the mix, and without any traces of odd digital artifacts). However I recently found out that the bass riffs for the songs I have been working on for this project sounded even better with the bass tuned an additional half step up, to G strandard tuning, as in 2 half steps bellow A standard baritone tuning, and for that the string gauges I used had just a bit too much tension, being way too inflexible. So I decided giving the D'Addario NYXL nickle roundwounds a try, which got a new high carbon steel alloy core, and with the nickle wound wrapped tighter together, as well as they have slightly lower tension than similar gauged XL nickle wound strings, making then more flexible and the tighter nickle wounds making them feel a bit smoother. To get the desired tension I had to use guitar strings for the 3 upper strings though, which has slightly higher tension than the NYXL strings for bass at similar gauge, which I assume means a bit thicker core. Anyway, so I ended up with a gauge .095 NYXL bass string, and gauge .070 - .053 - .038 NYXL guitar strings, the length of the guitar strings actually fitting perfectly to my Mikro Bass's just 28,6" scale length, threading the guitar string through the cut off ball ends of bass strings, for them to not fall through the bridge string holes. That combination giving me almost perfectly balanced tension across all 4 strings, which is just about 30 lbs pr string when tuned to G standard (which is 1 to 2 lbs lower than the tension of the A and G string on a regular short scale 30" 4 string bass equipped with a gauge .100 to .045 D'Addario XL Nickle roundwound string set and tuned in regular E standard tuning), pretty much the same as the gauge .095 - .075 - .055 - .040 set tuned in F# standard, only the tension being even more equally balanced, including the .095 string, which otherwise had been about 2 lbs bellow the average tension of the other strings. And as it turned out they also happens to be really balanced output and tone wise. But the best thing is the considerably improvement of the tone these strings are responsible for! Beside the D'Addario NYXL having slightly higher output than regular D'Addario XL Nickle strings, and feeling a bit smoother and really nice on the fingers, they have this really snappy edge and punch, though without being too brittle or harsh, but rather having an exquisite clarity, as well as what sounds like a distinct upper mids boost, which I absolutely love. They actually got a bit of that stainless steel strings flavor, but without the fret eating part or the coarse feeling of playing on something reminiscent of a metal file. Time will tell how I like them when they are a bit more broken in and lost that spanking new strings metallic zing, but I can tell already now that even without that fresh string zing I will like the basic tone they deliver a lot more than regular XL strings, and the set of single strings I use is only about 40% more expensive than the XL set I used before, and as the consensus of people who use these strings seems to be that they typically will last up to 3 times longer than regular XL Nickle roundwound strings before they go dull, I'd say it is money well spend. The D'Addario NYXL nickle roundwound strings with a high carbon steel alloy core is no doubt by far my new favorite strings for bass. Just "Wauh!", simply amazing strings! Without question what I am going to use in the future for all my basses, and might even try them out for my electric guitar as well, even if I am actually really satisfied with the Elixir Nanoweb strings that is on my guitar currently (their bass strings not exactly my cup of tea though).

A Jerry Jones Longhorn (a now discontinued, sort of high quality, high end, version of the Danelectro one, from a now retired luthier/company), just with a solid body mahogany body (the Longhorn is semi hollow), a Musicman pickup (the Nordstrand Big Blademan) in the P pickup position, an ebony fretboard, and a 28,6" scale length, I would pretty much have my dream bass. Here's how the regular real Jerry Jones Longhorn, that I once owened, but was stupid enough to part with looked, 24 frets, 16,6mm string spacing, 14,5" fretboard radius (not my bass on the picture though, just a random google one): Here are the specs: http://www.jerryjonesguitars.com/longhorn-bass4.html Though I love this body shape as well: And the B.C Rich headstock shape:

Fodera did nothing wrong! That there is a very special custom set for experiemntal musicians doing prepared bass stuff. They call it the "Ab/D - F [major] ck U p" set. All they did wrong was packaging it as an "Anthony Jackson Signature Strings" set, but I am sure he wouldn't mind.

On a more serious note, or well, I guess, in reality just to fulfill my urge to display my personal opinion on this matter as well, mostly because I am bored right now, and don't seem to care about doing anything that might have been more constructive, useful and needed : I get what you are saying OP, believe me, I too like my clean basic tone to sound great as well (even if we might not be of the exact same conception of what that is), and I guess there are really some bass players hiding their lack of skills behind using fancy, or less fancy, but rather perhaps more like flashy, in a tacky, questionable taste, kind of way, effects, often with little thought going into actually making them sound great or even just at least somewhat fit the context. And I guess such people would likely be a lot more common than those who play their effects artfully as instruments in their own right, or even than people who at least just put some amount of thought into making their effects sound great and actually having them add something to the context that a regular clean basic bass signal couldn't quite do with the same effect (no pun intended). I for one like to think I am one of those people who, at least post production when sitting quietly and working my magic in a DAW with VST effects, falls into the second category, when the music calls for it that is, live is another considerably more clumsy and crude affair for me though, even if I still like to think I here at least still manage to fall into the third category. Point being, as said I like my clean basic tone to sound great, but I also like the stuff that effects allows you to do that a clean basic tone wouldn't, not mindlessly used to add unnecessary tacky flash, necessary tacky flash when called for though, but mostly just what is needed to get the job done properly and make it sound just right, and fact is that far from all music is best off with no effects on the bass at all, perhaps most of the most common forms of classic traditional rock and pop is most of the time, but being traditional and common is not exactly the same as embracing all the lush diversity that music as a craft, art and advanced form of communication actually got to offer, in fact most often the exact opposite.

I took the risk and actually bought one of these PA speakers, the passive version though, but the exact same speaker, just without a build in poweramp, and I can actually confirm that it has excellent low frequency reproduction, more balanced between high and low frequency representation though than my SWR Triad I bass cab, the SWR being an early attempt of a full range bass cabinet, equipped with a 15" speaker unit receiving the full frequency range of the signal, a 10" speaker that via the build in crossover filter only receives the part of the signal that lies between 100Hz and 5kHz, and a high frequency tweeter horn that only receives everything from the signal that lies above 5kHz, being able to control how much of that part of the signal it receives via a build in attenuator. To be perfectly honest I did end up preferring the tone of my SWR Triad I, but actually not in particular just because of it tone wise balancing slightly more towards the low end, really more so simply because the, no doubt higher quality, speaker units of the SWR cab, compared to the units used in the cheap The Box PA speaker, simply sounded better to my ears. However I would still claim that The Box PA 502 full range PA speaker would be perfectly passable for use with bass, as it doesn't actually seems to struggle with reproducing the low frequencies of a bass signal whatsoever (at least down to and including the low E of a regular 4 string bass tuning), and I am quite sure using just right cab IR and EQ'ed just right you could get quite decent results from it, despite the obvious relatively cheap speaker units it is equipped with. In my opinion what likely eventual would disqualify this particular PA speaker as a proper candidate for a full range speaker to use with amp and cab IR sims for bass, would really rather be more of a case of the sub and tweeter units it is equipped with not exactly being of top notch quality, not exactly sounding great, though absolutely not exactly bad either, than because of any inability to reproduce the low frequency content coming from of a bass properly, since I don't think that would actually be true. So I guess the conclusion, as far as I am concerned, would be that nothing inherently about full range PA speakers seems to prevent them from being a great option for full range speakers used with amp and cab IR sims for bass in mind, as long as you are just willing to spend the money required to get one equipped with proper quality speaker units that match your tonal ambitions.