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Sometimes... I have a thought that I'm not particularly fond of. But it seems to arise "out of the blue" as a natural response to some item of interest. Back in 1970, I was privileged to see and hear the great Peggy Lee at an outdoor concert with The Chicago Transit Authority. Chicago was in top form, but they're much more majestic on record than an outdoor concert in a football stadium. I could only imagine how they'd sound in a small venue. However, Miss Peggy Lee, as professional and talented and strikingly beautiful as she was, appeared and sounded far different from her recordings and glossy photos. Yes... Time marches on! And it stomps on us all as it does. I was content to finally see her perform, live on stage, taffy-pulling through an abridged medley of hits while the muses ascended and the crowd rose to their feet in deafening applause to a Fever finale. But the mental image that remains with me is Peggy Lee on a stage, post war at the height of the Big Band Era, interpreting a torch song in an emotional pantomime. I hate to be the one to say it aloud, but are we not all shallow in this respect? We hold up this romantic image of a star in their prime. Glowing, youthful faces with vibrant voices, trim and fit or shapely, striving with all their might to "hit" that finale note as the camera pulls back and the image fades out to black. Giants of talent all walk that lonesome path to Paloockaville... Sinatra, Tom Jones, Peggy Lee, Petula Clark, Julie Andrews, Cliff Richards, Elvis... Why, as we all age, others find us boring, bland and forgettable. Our voices waver and become hoarse. Some of us carve our faces with surgery to remain beautiful and youthful looking. Oh, but it only looks good in the dim light! A fool's fool we are... What is the cause for this phenomenon? Is it truly what the showbiz boys of yore once called "sex appeal"? This is perverse. We lose interest in talented entertainers as they wrinkle and grey, not because they have lost their talents, but because they are no longer fertile or capable of reproduction? Are we mesmerised by genius or simply transfixed on sexuality? Staring through a fleeting window of fecundity?

Just to play the devil's advocate... Cliff Richards was no Elvis, but for Britain he was a face saver. He was just as good as any teen idol at the time; Fabian Paul Anka... The UK market for 45's consisted of pre-teen and teen-aged girls with allowances and pocket money and with screaming hormones that were repressed and depressed. The back-room boys chomped on their cigars and knew that a crooner with a boy-next-door face, undamaged, could coax 7/6 out of their purse in a heartbeat. He was a tamed Elvis, but was Britain ready for a home-grown Elvis? (He would have been deported by the BBC...) This video shows how The Shadows made it a hit. If Cliff was no Elvis, then the Ventures were no Shadows. And the real magic is the rhythm guitarist's power chords and the drummer's cymbal & snare sticking. A remarkable track that I still listen to for it's British almost rawness. A pre-cursor of Long Cool Woman? It's a mistake to compare a 1960 performance by today's 2020 standards, anyway. I was around in 1960. Those days were super repressive and extremely low key. I don't know of any other Cliff Richard song of this nature (Move It). Then he went the way of the Elvis movie. Vanilla, but more lucrative, back then. From a Vauxhall to a Jag...

[Long-winded old-man alert!] Reading this may alter your mind. "Retirement" is only a modern-day phenomenon. We've forgotten that in past centuries, people never retired. They belonged to guilds as shoemakers and blacksmiths, ...etc. When they became old and feeble, they simply cut back until they could no longer pass muster and hopefully, they were wise enough to save for their twilight years. Or successful enough for apprentices to take up the slack. Perhaps retirement was born as a military contractual benefit, to entice men to join such a thing. But, everyone else couldn't just stop working and "retire", as their work, proprietary profession and business was certainly their only means of livelihood. No cushy pension schemes. Life was short and brutal. Most people dropped dead on the job, before they could worry much about "retirement". You bopped till you dropped. Today, most of us work as employees for corps and gov't. Retirement schemes abound. Even doctors and lawyers are salaried, now. Of course, it's a ponzie scheme waiting to collapse as demographics invert. Hence, the big push for immigration. Soon, we'll all witness abrubt and impending retirement upheavals and the fallout of lowered expectations. If you can still command an audience, carry on. Back in the 1980s I watched Peter Noone (aged 71) performing Hermin's Hermits songs for twenty-five people in an open-air park at the CNE fair in Toronto. While sitting on a park bench, I had to wonder how this could be. But I was still young. You're all in for a surprise at 52. That's when you find out how stupid you really are. Things get better after that. By the way, he's still performing. I'm 64 and have long moonlighted as a BP. I have no intention of working the careers that I chose to raise a family and earn a living. But last week I joined a bar band. Why? Because bass playing is my passion. Knocking those four strings about makes me feel like I'm flying. I know that I'm a denizen of the far tail on the BP bell curve and can shake a dance-floor better than most. So why not? (I'd rather recline, drink coffee and watch House MD, Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek, Law & Order and Tommy Cooper; but I seen 'em already. Besides, the actors are really the ones having all the fun. A bar band provides human interaction on a grand scale.) Why is age a factor? Is it youth that is the real commodity? Do you go to a concert to see youth or hear music? Dancer or lurker? That's the part that makes no sense. Mass youth was simply a property of the post-war baby-boom. It's not a religion. Why would anyone seek after a youthful face when they really just want musical entertainment. It's not a romp in a cat-house. It's only entertainment for bar hoppers and pub punters to immerse themselves in a joyful noise and dimness so they feel more secure as they seek a buzz or a mate or give the baggage a good shake in public. Those who like music based on the Fender bass have grown-up and aged. But they still like this music. Look at the Stones. Look at their audience. The sixties was not just a youth rebellion. Most of us were not rebelling. We just liked to hear the drum kits, the Fender basses, the 'lectric guitars, and the vocalists with colourful voices and magical, meaningful lyrics. Trump is 71. Merkle is ? McCartney? Richards? I'd bet that even Elvis would still be gyrating today at 83. Why do they do it, the OP asks? Because there is a public need... Because passion rivals money... Because they can... and they're good at it! Satisfaction trumps waiting to die. Live the life you love... till it's time to die. Let's not call it a disorder. It's a blessing.

My Troll has awakened...

So true... Playing with the very best musicians in the whole wide world - of all time! And they never miss a beat! They can't project their emotional problems, negativity or bad habits onto you. Nor, waste your time and money on studios and transportation. No packing up, loading, driving, parking, unloading, setting-up, tearing down, parking ticket arguments, broken windows, side-swiped, keyed paint, fights with tow truck driver, loading, driving, falling asleep while driving, car wear-and-tear, unloading and packing, explaining to the missus how it all was worth it. Or playing for nothing ($00.00) at venues where you're grossly unappreciated. buying new clothes to fit in... Or learning endless song lists of mediocre music that doesn't interest you in the least, but the guitard's new girlfriend's belly-warmer fave is "The First Time Is The Last Time I Loved You For All Time" where you get to play four lugubrious notes over and over and over again until you become a zombie corpse or wake up at the end and puke. Or get voted out of the band because someone doesn't like the cut of your jib or the bass player actually spoke so they fired him. ("We're going to re-group. We'll get back to you. What's a BP, anyway?") And you can always click them off and have tea with the wife! Your marriage won't cool off and you're safe at home from drunks and knifers and the rest of the Saturday Night Cretans. Relish in your freedom, regardless of your gear, and be content in your wise decision to play Home Alone!

There's always the portable Tascam CD-BT2.

I just bought one (BA110V2). Nothing beats it. Set for all bass and it's Motown. Add mids/treble and it's rock. It's only for home practice, but I'm curious to see how it sounds with a band. Should be enough for a house party. Great tone.

Soul and Disco... I bought a new Ampeg BA-110V2 40W rms bass combo (60 degree kickback) for only $200 cdn. Something about the small 10" speaker and 40W rms combination makes a beautiful tone. (pay more or less for different speaker size, but the 10" speaker has the best sound to my ear but it is only a practice amp) And lighter than my Classic SVT head alone, never mind the 810E refrigerator cab (which I can't really play at home without destruction...). Another $100 and I could have bought the 12"@75W, which actually can be used in a small venue, but I liked the sound of the BA110 much better, after a couple of hours comparison. I've placed it under my desk, pointing up at me (kickback). I can't imagine a better practice amp for the home. Now I can get great Motown bass tone as I play along with CD's without shaking down the house. If I knew any musicians, I could take it to their place, it's so light to carry (34 lb). Being a combo there's no fuss. I'm not selling gear. But I'd be interested in what others think. All I have to do now is mic it through a PA for live performance LOL!. But who wants to see an old man gig...?

I agree with everything in your post, but if I were showing someone starting out, I would show this way of holding the plectrum (on the side of the index). It avoids RSI and it's faster, even effortless, providing that the forearm is resting firmly on the hip of the bass body. This grip also allows the upstrokes and downstrokes to sound identical, because the plectrum is secure in either direction. The thumb-index pinch style has a weaker sounding upstroke and the plectrum is on an angle to the string, and it's slower. There's a few good minutes of this in Carol Kaye's interview:

LOL! You must be on the wrong page... Are you ok?

I take it that your big on pizzicato...

Well, that certainly clears things up, now, doesn't it? I always proofread my own posts carefully so that I don't give any new players bad gin or recommend any harmful shortcuts that may impair their future playing. By the way, I have the Sanky version of Simandl as a reference for my post, above. Which one were you going by? The Sanky (blue cover) edition teaches that all preceding fingers assist in stopping the string. Especially when bowing a double bass and the string height is high for clarity and volume. Also, the ring finger assists the pinky. Beginners often "tie" the ring and pinky together to learn. And the stopping hand will be more balanced and stable as one plays and shifts, as all four fingers are aligned together. I guess your fingering technique is fine for you, as long as it doesn't spawn a generation of new Simandl users who think that the middle finger has to be "saved" and "just rests on the string" and "doesn't matter" in Simandl technique, .

Thank you! You're the first I've heard to admit that. When I first started I only played bass with the thumb for a couple of years. You can play a lot of bass with one thumb. But when Motown arrived, I forced the fingers into gear. Jazz walking helped me a lot to make the transition. The original Fenders all had a finger rest below the strings so that one could pluck the string with the thumb. It just seemed like a natural way to play at that early time. I still play with the thumb for soft parts and sometimes pinch with thumb-index for double-stops. I wish everyone would just sign an agreement stating once and for all that the string bass presents a smorgasbord of techniques (getting hungry) that any bassist can avail themselves to that activate the strings into vibration, and all are equally valid, except for the axe method. Drumsticks may be debated. Then we could all go to Stockholm and sign it, and put this burning issue to rest! It could be a proliferation treaty condoning all WSMD's (Weapons of String Mass Deflection), such as, but not limited to: bow, plectrum, pizzicato, thumb, Jamerson's Hook, thumb-index pinch, slap/pop, and PIMAC(any combination and number of digits - thumb, index, bad, ring, baby). Any others may then be added by amendment.

I bought a new Ampeg BA-110V2 40W bass combo (60 degree kickback) for only $200. Something about the small 10" speaker and 40W rms. Beautiful Ampeg tone. And lighter than my Classic head alone, never mid the 810E cab. I placed it under my desk, pointing up at me. I can't imagine a better practice amp, (and I have an Ampeg Rocket combo). Now I can get great bass tone as I play along with my CD's without shaking down the house. If I knew musicians, I could take it to their place, it's so light to carry. I'm not selling gear. But I'd be interested in what others think. All I have to do now is mic it through a PA for live performance. But who wants to see an old man gig...?

PLECTERING!

Fingering?! Picking?! Why, this whole thread could be shut down...

Different strokes for different folks! The plectrum offers many things. And why fix something that ain't broke? Flex the plex...

the stopping hand?

I hope that no beginners try that. I wouldn't advise anyone to learn Simandl with a floating ring finger. It has a splendid role in SImandl fingering. What you've described may be a personal modification or deviation from Simandl. The way I learned the methodology was that all preceding fingers assist to stop the string. Especially on a double bass. Especially when bowing. On my bass guitar, I can enjoy a high string action due to this feature of Simandl. Also, the ring finger assists the pinky for the same reasons I mentioned above or to play with ease in half-position. I also recommend practicing shifting, in fact embrace it, as it leads to the dusty end, fingerboard mastery and a range of nearly three octaves. These two paragraphs will directly answer the OP and be a guide to anyone interested in learning Simandl properly to avoid RSI / Carpel Tunnel Syndrome..

I enjoy playing with both pizzicato and plectrum. But it took rigour and discipline! It's the slap/pop bit that, for some unknown reason, I'm not attracted to. But I was raised with big band music on the radio. I need a walking line or to play in half-time, the Latin box or rock riffs. I like the melody and harmony in rhythm. Percussion only is not for everyone. I play either PZ/PL depending on the song. Some lines sound better to me with a pick (I Think We're Alone Now, Hang On Sloopy, Good Vibrations...). Those type of lines work and sound better with plectrum. And I can't imagine a car chase scene in a movie unless the bass is on plectrum power. Whereas, jazz and blues need the fingers to do the walking. But I'm speaking in generalities. Leave your band for another and you'll find yourself doing something different. I hope you had fun singing along with Sloopy! I know the McCoys did! She reminds me a little of Andy Capp! Could be Flo had a daughter. . My bass journey has been inspired by records alone. I drove myself nuts until I could learn two finger pizzicato back in the incubator because of James Jamerson on every restaurant juke box. Then, the sound of a plectrum on a muted heavy-gauge flat-wound string attracted my ear, courtesy of Carol Kaye, Sir Paul McCartney and Ladi Geisler. I heard the great Rod Hicks playing a fretless Ampeg bass with Paul Butterfield and immediately ordered a fretless. I bought a Fender Jazz when I turned to rock and pop. Ray Brown's swinging walking lines caused me to go out and finally buy a double bass. Trying to capture the original vibe that made the song a hit in the first place drives me to change techniques accordingly. But all the great slap-pop bassists in the world can't entice me to "frappe la pouce en bois". Love Disease 6/8 fretless Ampeg bass: Ladi Geisler with Bert Kaempfert's Orchestra. "Knack-Bassen unde Dankeshoen!" The proper way to hold a plectrum! (and this may comes as a surprise for some!) Right Way! Wrong Way! Way wrong way! I caught on when I realised that biggest part about playing bass with a plectrum is to hide most of the pick and rotate only the wrist while resting the forearm firmly against the bass hip. That's why the body is bevelled there (Thank you Leo!). After those three tricks are mastered, one can modify to suit. Carol Kaye's books were most helpful. Holding the plectrum like Mel Bay also makes sense to me, now. And just enough plastic showing proud to push the string. A small wrist arcing motion separates the string and plectrum to avoid interference while alternating up and down strokes. There's no chance of resting the fingers on the pickguard to slow you down and the closed fist acts like a spinning ballerina, spinning faster as she pulls in her arms and legs close to her center of gravity. The effects of centripetal force is kindly and gracefully exhibited by these wonderful ladies! The double bass will introduce one to the bow! No bassist should ignore this if they ever get the chance to buy a DB. I always felt that to be a bass player, you have to play a DB. When I finally bought one, I changed all my fingering to Simandl and now apply it to the Fender bass also. I reserve the 1-2-3-4 guitar fingering for guitar and banjo where it belongs. (Or the dusty end of the bass guitar.) The plectrum suffers undue criticism because pizzicato is what distinguishes the bass player from other string players. So to be a "real" BP, one must walk the talk. But the plectrum offers another tonal palette to be explored. Just as any possible combination of five digits. Harmonics, tapping, slap/pop... We should never sell ourselves short. Pick 'em all over time.

Indeed. It's surely one of the first questions I ask before I audition (which doesn't happen too often out my way). And what kind of band is it where all are playing with other bands? Because it's win-win for the band-hopper, but a half dozen people will lose out that Saturday night after months of learning songs for nothing. Like a bunch of band-widows... They're all placed on the shelf. And what happens when you sit on the bench too long, coach? Why, you end up quitting. Hop-arounds are just sitting on the fence waiting for one horse to win and then off they go... and all bets are off for you! And these "projects-lads" are all of the same ilk. Oh, they're not looking for a crew, a team or a band. They're only goal is to gig. They don't have "the band" mentality. It's like the Beatles and Pete Best. It's all about them. The slightest hiccup and you're out. Because there is no loyalty issue for them. For me, there's no sense in just gigging. For me it's all about having a pint or a coffee and critiquing/reminiscing that gig last month with people who give a sh*t about their band mates, and that lady in the back yelling at everyone to bugger off, and the ice-lady who slapped her boyfriend and he was still chasing after her as she stormed out the door. . and what was that strange, new dance? And the time that Mitch had to hide down low behind the drums because that big jealous goof and his brotha were searching for the musician that his drunken wife was making googlie-eyes at. Looking forward to rehearsals primarily because of music, but also because you're doing something constructive with others. And as each musician improves, the band sounds better. And bonds form that last a lifetime. A sense of pride in building something and shared accomplishment. It should be more like being on a sports team combined with the skill of musicianship and the excitement of the stage. That's the whole fun deal about being in a band. It's more common for lads to hunt together and bring home the game and then tell tales of the hunt. I shun people who belong to more than one band and stay clear of the doomed bands that have become an unwitting host to these band bigamists. What say ye, me hardies!! Aharghhh! How exhilarating...! I feel like the flea floating down the canal with a hard-on and screaming "Quick! Raise the bridge! Raise the bridge!"

Indeed.

I think my old ad was too short (Bass Player Available). Besides the supermarket cart-boy keeps removing it from the board. I think he's a bass player, too. Most of them are. So, I'm placing another ad. I found out about this CL on the world wide web and put together this ad. I wonder if anyone would care to critique it. I'm desperate for any constructive advice that only a pro can muster. Hopefully, I'm knocking on the right door. I'm not having much luck over the years. Can't even find a 25 minute slot in an audition. I do get other bass player smart-derrières spamming my letter box, though. One feller said if I wanted to stop looking stupid that I should kill myself! That sent me into a tailspin of depression. After re-watching a few episodes of House MD, I cheered right up and realised that my real failing, my true and tragic miss-step, was due to my lack of humanity. And disregard for positive change. I just wasn't chatty enough. I even included my gear this time because a smart lookin' fellow on Bass Chat said that guitards love it when you mention gear. I added some constraints at the end to avoid the horde of bad actors prevalent today in the music biz. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, for like Ruth Ellis, I'm at the end of my rope. The Trick To Finding A Good Bass Player Is To Know When To Stop Looking! Bass Player Available Bass Guitar or Double Bass Ampeg Gear + Vehicle All musical styles considered I'm seeking an established or start-up band, featuring female vocals and performing a wide range of danceable hit covers to entertain an audience. I'd like to meet other serious but amenable musicians who enjoy playing for fun or profit. Please contact me for jam sessions or an audition. I'm a versatile musician with experience in vintage and current musical styles to reach a wide audience: Sixties Soul, Disco Jazz and Blues covers or improvisation in any style R&B dance hits and ballads influenced by Latin, Boogaloo, Funk, Gospel, New Orleans, Caribbean Jump Blues, 50's Rock&Roll and Doo-Wop Classic Rock, British Invasion to New Wave, Beatles to AC/DC... Traditional and New Country, Country Rock, Southern Rock, Rockabilly, Cajun Reggae, Ska, Rock Steady, Calypso, Soca and Steel Pan Popular Vocalists of the Big Bands, Swing, Dixieland, Waltz/Polka and Latin dance rhythms As a bassist, I strive to present a polished sound and superb bass tone to project a solid band presence on any stage or venue. For this reason I've chosen to string my basses with heavy-gauge, flat-wound strings and play both fingerstyle and with a plectrum. I play a Fender Jazz Bass, Fender Precision fretless bass, and the double bass to be able to invoke the original vibe that made the song a hit. I've selected Ampeg gear to fill any sized venue: 300W Classic SVT 8x10" 200W Rocket Combo 1x15" +horn 40W BA-110V2 1x10" A small set of floor pedals sharpens the bass signal: line driver, equaliser, maximiser, volume pedal I prepare at home for rehearsals with a Tascam CD-BT2. Key changes are not a problem. Good discussion starters: Set-list (performance sequence, title/artist, your singer's key), Line-up (current and desired), Rehearsals (schedule, location, cost), Performance (intentions, audience, venues, region, local/touring), Age range, if any. Band experience has taught me the following: Be loyal and reliable and show up for rehearsals prepared, prompt and paying your one's share of expenses Expect and deliver mutual respect, good behaviour and polite language Never speak about anyone at anytime Play hit covers only, as close to the original as possible to avoid tedious rearranging Put an effort into one's stage appearance, patter, gestures and movements Work from consensus and equally distribute any compensation Pay-as-you-go with no band overhead, debts or tax issues Confront manipulative people Shine a light on dirt and use strong disinfectant Never be a temporary replacement or pursue multiple projects Never micro-manage another's playing or even give advice, as we should all be equals Never sell strong opinions within the group regarding politics, religion or finances Never suffer previous bass players lurking about or anyone turning up at gigs to sit-in Never allow the band room to become a marketplace for potential customers or clients Never allow in-house power struggles Avoid bands with habitual users of any substance Avoid songwriters, track producers, virtuosos, and "pro's" Avoid self-appointed band leaders with no studio, book of charts, famous name with a draw, or connections Avoid bands where friends or family are tending band operations or replacing band members -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------. I don't know if I should include the remaining in my ad, because the wording may be a little strong and it may insult some of the rascals I'm describing and I'll get kicked off of CL!. But it sure would dissuade the bad ones!. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------. Multiple-project fly-by-night band-hoppers Bands that just can't seem to hold-on to their bass players Bands with their old bass player lurking about Bands so desperate for a temp BP that they will lead you on - until the old one returns Bands with debts or covert overheads or back taxes requesting your signature (and you lose your house!) Bands who suck in a new BP cuz the old BP ran away from thousands in unpaid studio time and unsold CD's Manipulative personalities, including phonies, sneaks, liars, cons, rats, weasels and snakes Bands that change out members for friends as they begin to gain success Unequal distribution of compensation (there's always some reason) Occasional Turn-ups and Absentee Musicians Someone who can never cough up their part of expenses Bands that gradually weasel their friends/family into the band (suddenly they're getting a salary and expenses) Bands with bass player friends who always turn up at gigs to sit-in - with your gear! Buddy buys a bass as a second instrument, "Cuz its easy!", and now he thinks, "Hey! I'm a bass player too!" Armchair-bassists and other bass line micro-managers Self-appointed band-leaders with no talent, no name, no draw, no studio, no gigs, no charts!? Self-induced virtuosos or anyone that refers to themselves as a "pro" without laughing Songwriters trolling for dupes to play their melodramatic drivel Originals and other anti-dance music genres Petty re-arranging of hit songs in a vain attempt to look original (and creative!) Band-room potheads or intoxicated zombies. Maybe both. Band-room smoochers, making googlie eyes at the singer, related band members, cult members, Fraternites Band-room politicos, sellers and other pests Bands cashing in on tragic yet trendy T. Hip tributes Look-alike tributes Musicians posting ads who are really undercover producers selling tracks on an album that you'll be paying for

Will Scotty be there?!

Mission Impossible