SuperSeagull

Appreciate this forum is really about PA in a band situation but I find myself the lead person on recommending a solution for an installed PA at our small church and wanted to check some of my thinking with experts here. We meet in a 1970s building, lots of brick wall and tiled floors but no pillars or medieval tombs to worry about! There is a part raised area at the front where speakers and musicians are – approx. 12m x 4m. From the front of the raised area to the back wall is 13m with a max width of 15m and ceiling height of 4m. We need a system that can cope with speech, singers, an MP3 type device that is used for backing tracks and a band (drums, bass, acoustic guitar, keys and vocals). It also needs to support a proposed new TV screen system plus various community meetings during the week when one or more mics might be needed. We are short on people who are technically minded so simple operation is important. Typical attendance is between 60 and 70 on a Sunday but can peak at 100 plus. We’ve no money, every penny will have to be raised, so budget is important. We have to get three quotes, two of these will be from supply and install companies used to working in churches and the third will be from me. First supply and install quote has come in at between £9k to £14k dependent on options. This may prove too expensive / over spec’d. Incs an A&H QU mixer, EV or Citronic passive speakers, Sennheiser or JTS wireless mics. I'd not heard of either Citronic or JTS before. Having spent time reading this and other forums plus meeting with some folk I know who run the tech side of a larger church but who understand what is needed for a smaller set up, I’m thinking of. 1. Behringer X32 desk plus S16 stage box. Had a long discussion about whether a physical desk was needed but conclusion was it’s easier for a non tech person to operate on the fly plus recall scenes for different meeting types. 2. dB LVX active speakers. These are used in a small set up at another church and seem to be perfectly fine to me – only question is 10” or 12”? Plan to use speaker stands, at least initially to simplify the install process. 3. Behringer F122OD powered monitors, probably 2 (and can also be used as a simple portable PA on occasions outside or elsewhere on the premises) 4. Sennheiser XSW 2-ME3 headset mics, I’m still confused about which band I need. 5. Sennheiser XSW 2-835 handheld wireless mic. 6. Sennheiser E835S mics for vocalists. Plus all the sundries – cables, stands, rack case, DI boxes etc and a tablet for remote mixing. I’ve not included a sub but think that might be something that should be added and I’m wondering if there is a more cost effective solution for the wireless mics. I reckon I could source all of this for around £6k and that install would not be difficult (although there is a hearing loop amp system that needs plumbing in). With the saving on the cheapest other quote we could pay for all the new TV screens and ancillary bits. How does that look? What am I missing or not considering? Thanks.

Thanks. Very clear.

Could you explain what you mean by the comment about compression having the same effect as lots of headroom please? I don’t usually use compression live but there is something about the way the Elf adds in compression that I like. Ta.

When I used mine for half a set when my MB overheated it was into a 8 ohm 1x12. It was running hard but still loud enough - we are a reasonably loud band and I've never, ever been accused of being a quiet bass player!

Yeah, I know what I'm doing but always happy to have a gentle reminder. If you see a blown MB combo or Elf for sale next week you'll know I know less than I think 😄

I might give this a try next Friday when we gig. I can hook up the internal 12" speaker in my MB combo plus the NY and see how it goes.

I’m wondering how an Elf would cope in my loud ish pub band with two MB NY121 cabs. I already one cab and the Elf - looking to downsize weight from current rig (see my Ultra Lightweight Cabs thread)

So many great ideas on here, thanks all for your input. I'm settled on dropping the combo plus an additional cab and going for amp plus two cabs - keeps everything as flexible and light as possible. I was tempted by the BF One10 x 2 route as a modular solution but not convinced its the right idea for the type of band I tend to play in. Ideal would be a couple of BF Super Compacts so will be looking out for those s/h. Now, they come in at between 10 and 12 kg, my current MB NY121 is only 13kg so possibly find another of those, new amp on the top and, I think the smartest idea of all, a trolley. But I'm still considering options and in the meantime my back is improving thanks to my chiropracter.

Its a good idea. I've used IEMs before - not the greatest fan but I would use them again. I don't think the rest of the band are up for it at this stage and we'd need an upgrade to our PA as well.

I never met him despite living just down the road from the village he lived in. But one day I was having my hair cut and the barber asked what I had planned for the weekend. Gigging I replied and said I played bass. I cut another bass players hair she said and I mentioned the name of friend who was also player. Yes, I cut his too she replied but there is another older fella, claims to have played all over the world and with all the greats, lives in Ditchling. I showed her a picture of Herbie Flowers on my phone - that’s him! I said call me the next time he comes for a haircut but she didn’t 🙁

I understand Herbie Flowers has passed away aged 86. A genuine bass legend.

That's a manufacturer I am not familiar with - will take a look, thanks

Thanks, that's a good steer. I've a TE Elf, if it had a few more watts it would be perfect.

Good idea although I think I just fancy a change as well!

Do let me know if you go ahead with that.

Yes, modular the way to go. Ta

The ones you are going to list - are they One10s?

Good advice. Physically I'm a bit of a mess with blood cancer and some other issues which make it hard to manage every aspect of my health but I'll not be writing it off yet, just want to make it easy as possible!

Thanks - someone was selling a pair of One10s recently - I was tempted but they went very quickly. It does sound a good solution and they come in at around 7kg.

My 62 year old back is knackered. Currently reliant on a chiropractor to keep me mobile but at the moment I couldn't move my MB 121 combo and 121 cab without feeling pain. Whilst my MB gear is hardly old school heavy I want to switch to something which ideally weighs no more than a bag of crisps, certainly less than 10kg. But it still needs to be able to keep up with a loud pub band. I picked up a friend's Rumble combo a while back and couldn't believe how light it was. I'm also conscious of the GR cabs which claim to be the world's lightest. Anyone gone through the same thought process and where did you end up? I guess ideally I would be able to go for IEMs with the band but that isn't going to happen anytime soon.

I'd go for the combo and cab option, flexible and easier to lug the combo if that is all you need. It's been my setup for years and I love it.

I bought this Peavey TKO from Tiger Music in Brighton in 1990 or 1991. In 1999 I sold it to a friend to help pay for my new Ashdown gear. He used it in a Church and when he left, gifted it to them. Long story short, I played in that Church this morning and there was my old Peavey, still going strong after 34 years. Needed my Sansamp in front of it to tame a bit of boom but what a great bit of kit - it was emotional 😭

We did a corporate thing on Saturday afternoon, a manufacturer of road sweeping equipment had their annual summer do for employees and their families. We did an hour in the afternoon, nothing particularly remarkable other than it is the first time I have set up in a Sweeper Test Area. New vocalist settling in well and this sort of low pressure, short gig is good for building confidence between us all.

Exactly how I describe mine working.

It’s just down the road from me but understand the bass content is modest.