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That's the way to do it. Why wait until Christmas?

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1482228345' post='3198562'] If you have house insurance you will be covered under a lot of circumstances. Have a word with them. Unless you are out every weekend they'll probably be happy to cover you, sometimes for a slight increase in your premium. It will be unlikely that it's the venue who decide whether or not to claim against you in the event of an accident. The third party insurers will claim against the venue as the accident happened on their premises and then the venue's insurers will claim against you. The venue' insurance will cover employees and casual staff, and they'll claim against those staff if they think the staff have been negligent in the event of an accident. They're asking that you're insured to save them dragging you through the courts and suing you. . [/quote] Good points. Home insurance covers a lot of things if you read the small print, it's not just for fire or burglary. Policies vary in their cover of course (always read the small print!) but when you're paying four figures for home/personal insurance you might be surprised at the level of cover provided. Of course the insurance industry likes to encourage people to buy all manner of additional insurance and it's in their interest to talk up risks in order to worry people (and government, now there's insurance tax!). If you buy a photography magazine there'll be 'specialist' insurance policies for your camera gear, even though your home policy could cover it 'all risks'. Same with musical gear and other 'special interest' hobbies. OTOH, if buying some additional insurance gives peace of mind then it's probably worth it for that alone and, as previously mentioned, some gigs will insist anyway so there's no choice - but that's often the way of things when they're on the hobby/business borderline. I'm happy to stay on the hobby side of the line

[quote name='Mudpup' timestamp='1482171750' post='3198217'] We tried using a DMX controller but i couldn't be a****ed to spend days programming scenes/fades and chases and then messing around with it on stage when i should be concentrating on playing. In reality its all fine on autorun and i don't have to touch it all night if i don't want to. [/quote] Yep, same here. It's fun to play around with a DMX controller for a while but if you have visions of a fully synchronised light show then a lighting tech is the best answer.

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1482167373' post='3198180'] No. This is treated as freelance work. You are not on their books for PAYE and National Insurance. [/quote] Are the casual bar staff on their books for PAYE and NI then?

[quote name='Mykesbass' timestamp='1482166874' post='3198173'] ^This. As a band you are self-employed, you haven't gone on the venue's payroll for the night. [/quote] Surely if the venue is paying the band then they're effectively on the venue's payroll, just like the temporary bar staff? For that evening.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1482162112' post='3198128'] If the venue employed you directly it would indeed be their responsibility to ensure their insurance covered having a band with a stage and loose cables etc. Coming in at the request of the bride or the venue as a sub contractor you will need your own insurance, same will go for the disco, caterers if they are bringing equipment in, bouncy castle whatever, it's all standard stuff. [/quote] Ah, I think we were at crossed purposes. So if the venue pays the band directly they should be covered under the venue's PLI? It's a fair point that a bride is unlikely to have insurance to cover the band, though a commercial venue specifically set up for weddings and the like might reasonably be expected to have insurance to cover bands and the like, though I take your point that they're not the 'employer' in such circumstances. Bloody minefield eh? I have enough problems remembering the set list!

[quote name='TheRev' timestamp='1482156131' post='3198065'] I did not know that. To be fair, I'm not trying to do anything more complicated than make the pretty light more redderer.. [/quote] Whatever you're trying to do using DMX, simple or complicated, it will rely on data being sent over the daisy-chained cabling. The DMX protocol ('language') is based on broadcasting a command (data) to all the connected devices at the same time. The system relies on each device having an address (set with those little switches) so although the command is sent to every device, only the device with the appropriate address will take notice of the command. However, the device does not talk back to the controller so the controller cannot be certain if the device has received the command correctly and if a command is missed then things can quickly get messed up. None of this really matters over short cable lengths because the signals will remain strong, but as cable lengths increase and the number of connected devices increases, the signals become 'weaker' and more 'distorted' and the whole system becomes susceptible to other electrical interference. The result can be erratic behaviour such as random colour changes, commands being sometimes ignored, etc. If you're not having any problems with your set up then fine, but just bear all this in mind if you start adding more lights or running longer cables and if things start misbehaving then consider getting some proper DMX cables plus a proper terminator plug (very easy to make yourself) before suspecting equipment failure. TBH, it's a shame that XLR connectors were chosen for the DMX system because it's obviously easily to confuse with microphone cables. It's a bit like jacks being commonly used for both speaker cables and guitar leads, either will work after a fashion but the wrong cable types can cause problems in the extreme. Still, that's the way it is and moaning on here won't change things - just beware the pitfalls

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1482154068' post='3198037'] The venue will be insured for their property and the actions of their staff not yours. The insurance covers your band if someone trips over a Mic stand or a speaker falls on them. It also covers their staff and property from our actions. [/quote] If the venue is paying the band then they are in the employ of the venue and are surely just as much 'staff' as the temporary bar staff? Therefore they could be covered under the venue's PLI? [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1482154068' post='3198037'] Your place of work will have insurance but once I come into your place of work I need to prove to your bosses that I'm insured around their employees, it's exactly the same. [/quote] Last time I walked into a pub (or Tesco or a car showroom, etc) I wasn't asked to prove I was insured around their employees. [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1482154068' post='3198037'] As for the PAT what normally happens their is you book the gig with the bride for example and there's no mention of it again until you meet the person at the venue that shows you where to set up and what not, what do you do then? [/quote] It hasn't happened to us in ten years though I take your point. What would we do then? Well, if PAT was genuinely not specified as a requirement we'd just have to ask the bride and venue to sort it out. What else could we do? How proactive are we supposed to be?

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1482136093' post='3197816'] Exactly, we can and do argue about insurance and PAT testing but if the venue insist it's either a matter of getting some or not doing the gig. Even if you do a dozen gigs a year it only costs £1.15 per gig each with a four piece band. [/quote] We've never been asked for insurance or PAT certs. If the venue insisted on us having insurance we'd probably ask them to pay for it or we'd not bother More seriously, shouldn't the venue be the ones responsible for any necessary insurance and licences? We don't pay for a PRS licence so why is insurance different? As for PAT testing, it's not a legal requirement and since the venue (the 'employer') doesn't own the equipment in question it is therefore not responsible for it. I'm not saying that venues never ask for PAT certs and I'm sure some of them do out of bureaucratic jobsworthiness, but all I know is that in 10 years of fairly regular gigging at pubs, parties and the odd music festival, we've never been asked for them. I agree that if asked then it would be almost impossible to argue against it, in which case we'd just ask the venue to pay or we'd give it a miss. We're not dependent on gigging for an income so it would be no loss to us.

[quote name='TheRev' timestamp='1482148929' post='3197974'] You can daisy chain them together with XLR Cables . . . . [/quote] Yes, but not mic or signal cables. DMX cables should be twisted pair cables and the last 'output' in the daisy chain should be terminated with a 120 ohm resistor (inside an XLR connector). You'll likely get away with using short XLR mic leads, but for long cable runs or lots of lights if you don't use the correct cable then the DMX control messages will likely become unreliable leading to erratic operation of the lighting, which will be VERY frustraiting on top of trying to decipher the various DMX modes in the first place!

I've never bothered, probably because we're not highly organised and only gig about a dozen times a year. I also don't bother with equipment insurance because I look after my gear when gigging so theft is not a worry and damage seems highly unlikely at the sort of places we gig. I've also never heard of anyone ever needing to make a claim. Anyone here have any experience of making a claim?

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1481900888' post='3196140'] You can't filter out these frequencies with passive speaker level components, it has to be done at line level with active components. Most bass amps have some kind of high pass filtering and most power amps have switchable filters. The strange thing about this issue, is that the worst problems I've had with cone over-excursion were with cabs which were tuned to 31Hz, so you were never driving them with frequencies below the tuning frequencies. You'd think from reading Phil's original post (which is broadly correct) that these low tuned cabs could never suffer such problems. That experience set me down the road of finding out what really matters with the inputs bass guitar cabs can handle and also the sounds they're expected to generate. It's much more complicated than you think! [/quote] Fair enough, but without going into the techie stuff, is it a real problem with ported cabs and if so why are there no warnings about it in the manuals - or have I missed them over the years? Perhaps only some cabs are susceptible, but even so, I'd have thought that the ones that are would have a pretty clear warranty disclaimer in their manuals, as they do regarding power handling limits. I doubt I could return a cab under warranty if I'd blown a driver with too much power so why should blowing one by driving with too-low frequencies be any different?

I'm struggling to understand all the details, but surely if a manufacturer designs a ported cab in which the driver could potentially be damaged by frequencies below x (or above y) then it would be sensible for the manufacturer to include the appropriate filters within the cab to ensure that these frequencies cannot be present at levels that could cause damage?

Henry the horse will be dancing the waltz

A bit of perspective here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-38329740 [i]"the increase isn't particularly surprising, because we're now half a century on from the flourishing of both TV and pop culture in the 1960s, which massively expanded the overall pool of public figures.[/i] [i]You're going to have to get used to hearing the celebrity obituary."[/i] In short, it's a natural consequence of the rise of our celebrity culture - the more celebrities there are, the more celebrities will die. Simples.

[quote name='ead' timestamp='1481804488' post='3195267'] Don't think that was quite what the OP was asking. If Love Me Do was released today (with no knowledge of former glories) would it still reach no.17 in the charts? [/quote] It might do if the charts could be as easily influenced as they were in the 60s

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1481809282' post='3195327'] Celebrities get old and have health issues just like the rest of us. But they tend to keep it private. I didn't know Greg Lake or Leon Russell was sick. Blue [/quote] Nor me, but that's because we don't really 'know' them at all. We've just 'heard' of them through their work, and their (mostly recorded) work is unaffected by whatever ailments they may be suffering or their eventual deaths. Also, we know little or nothing about them as people, which is odd when you think about how many people will say "I really like(d)" so-and-so, when all they can really mean is that they like their work. We see this time and again with actors. I'm sure we all have a favourite actor even without knowing them personally, but what it usually amounts to is that we really like the roles and characters they have played in their career because, let's be honest, what else can we know about them? And if/when we do learn about the real them, whose to say we'd actually like them? Anyone here still a fan of Gary Glitter even though you may have enjoyed his music back in the day?

That's very generous considering you guys invented it.

I'm sure it does too. But for all those who only 'knew' him through his work, nothing has actually changed. I like the previous references to 'a doff of the hat'. That seems entirely appropriate for a passing hearse or a celeb only known through their work or publicity machine.

React differently, sure, but write up whole eulogies on the web? I'd guess most of us had school teachers who have influenced our lives more than some barely-remembered-until-they-die musician. Still, nowt as strange as folk, as the old saying goes.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1481212692' post='3190636'] Hmmmm. Not sure I agree. If a "celeb" dies and they had a large effect on my life, then I will feel shocked, sad, disappointed, maybe even angry (depending on the circumstances of their death). If that makes me selfish or self-indulgent, so be it. You appear to be saying that if someone was famous or left some form of "legacy" then they don't deserve to be mourned - and that nobody other than their nearest and dearest have the right to comment upon that death. I find that strange... Also rather a provocative post for only your 19th! [/quote] You've misunderstood me, which is fair enough as it's my fault. I wasn't trying to be judgemental (again, my fault for not putting a on my last sentence) and wouldn't dream of telling people how to react to someone's death - you're right that it's a very personal thing. So perhaps I'm odd one out in not grieving for celebs when they die, especially at a ripe old age. It's not out of spite, it's just that I simply don't know them. Sure, I might have liked, admired, enjoyed the fruits of their creative labour but I've known nothing of them personally, even though I'm thankful of their work and how much I've enjoyed it. If I am being provocative at all then it's probably about the 'cult of celebrity' where people get carried away with their obsession of celebrities, as evidenced by all the gossip magazines that seem to exist these days. Still, each to their own I suppose - there's clearly a demand for such a thing, perhaps it helps some people forget the vacuousness of their own lives and fantasise about being a celebrity themselves. Who know? I was prompted to start this thread by the Greg Lake RIP topic. I'm a big fan of his King Crimson work, have most of their albums on vinyl and listen to them with reasonable regularity, even though I 'discovered' them years after they had split up. But let's be honest, that body of work has existed for around 50 years now and it really doesn't matter if Lake or the others are alive or dead. In fact, until the recent news broke, I'd have had to guess if he was alive or dead - my point being that his existence today is irrelevant to his body of work that I admire so much. Against that background, his death is pretty much as meaningless as Joe Bloggs who I've never heard of - to me anyway. But I get that others will feel differently, which is fine, and I certainly don't want to upset anyone, I just find it curious.

I don't get it. There seems to be a general consensus that 2016 is a terrible year because so many muses, actors and assorted celebs we've all heard of have died and isn't is all so terrible and sad. Well yes, it's always sad when someone we have heard of and have admired dies. Fine. But what about all those people we don't know who have also died? Possibly in terrible circumstances yet are utterly unknown outside a handful of friends and families (and sometimes not even that) and will leave no significant lasting legacy of their brief lives? In contrast, the people we're apparently mourning so publically have mostly lived amazing lives that few of us can even comprehend never mind have experienced, have touched the lives of millions, if not billions, around the world and, most importantly, left a legacy of their creative endeavours that will last forever and be experienced by countless future generations. We all die one day - the real sadness should be reserved for the vast majority who will have achieved nothing worth being remembered for. So, less of the sadness for these privileged celebs and more of the celebration of their achievements.

[quote name='skidder652003' timestamp='1480971691' post='3188642'] Whoever thought to award it to that plonker when there's literally dozens of more deserving artists out there needs their head examining, what a joke. [/quote] Replace 'that plonker' with the name of any artist you care to name and that sentiment will ring true for some people and not others. It's all just opinion, there's no right or wrong. There might well be sour grapes though

Yes of course lend it to a fellow musician. It's not exactly a Stradivarius is it?!

I hardly drink at all and even then usually only wine with a meal. Consequently I have to endure the 'fun and laughter' that drinkers seem to delight in imposing on everyone around them. Alcohol eh? Making arseholes out of people ever since it was invented.