Pirellithecat

Ha Ha! Yes they are "musician" type ear defenders. And I will have to try harder to use them more often. I guess the beauty of not using them would be that it might make me pack it all in, more quickly, which would save many more ears - indeed it would be an altruistic act. I guess ear defenders are therefore rather a selfish act. The only answer for all concerned would be to play more quietly and sort out a PA! Ooh it's all getting a little philosophical.

Well, one rehearsal done with ear defenders, room set-up improved with speakers off the ground and level with the drummer, less bass boom from bass drum, and a "team talk" re. volume. And also a different bass Amplifier. Much better. However, the ear defenders do tend to get in the way of hearing the music in so far as keeping "in the pocket" with the drums, but that might be a question of getting used to them. However, even without the defenders, the different amp improves things very noticeable. I don't have to turn up to be able to hear the bass part. So, better amp allows quieter playing as the sound is clearer. Still need to keep working on the guitarist though - he's just too loud/bright/brittle/painful - actually it's probably a tone thing rather than absolute volume but it is painful! Might try a different cab next and still need to work on the monitor/PA side of things.

Thanks Everyone, Some very sane and re-assuring comments here which I will "share" with my fellow (rowdy) musicians! Fingers crossed once again, and it is absolutely the case that I need to find a band who are interested in delivering the songs well, rather than the songs just being a reason to demonstrate what fantastic guitarists/vocalists/drummers/ or dare I say it, bass players they (we) are. Except we're not! Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts Cheers!

No, No, and Yes! Indeed, I was the taken the fosters out of all evening for suggesting that 40W might be too loud! However, I've a friend who is an erstwhile sound engineer and I'll invite him to come along next time and see what he can do - trouble is, he's too nice!! I'm guessing this primitive need to be as loud as possible has been the end of many bands before they actually get going! However, I will persevere as follows - Ear Protectors Optimal Layout of Speakers Lift Speakers to as near ear height as possible Nag Try to reduce bass output from drums Get decent PA set up Nag Get support from ex-sound engineer PRAY. And get a better amp

Failed! Rehearsal yesterday. Just one guitar, 2x12 cab 40W Valve, smallish Hall plus drums. Too bloody loud. Although a couple of "spectators thought it OK (and not too loud for them at 10meters!) but they felt that the bass needed more volume. Gain set to max (before clipping) and 12.30 on master, bass rolled off slightly. No warning lights on master or tone controls but no ear defenders YET! Changed the layout so guitar speaker not pointing at me etc. and whinged continually. However, the bass rig is just not able to cope with this sound level, to the extent that I got a few signs of distress from the system and, as stated before, I really don't like the tone at higher volumes. I have tried to get the guitar speakers lifted off the floor rather than behind the guitarists knees, but so far unsuccessfully. The guitar tone is "cutting" rather than bassy so I don't think this is the issue. I will see what I can do to get the drummer to do something to reduce the low bass though. Aarghhh!!! Debriefed afterwards but no recognition of the noise issues and VERY reluctant to reduce SPL's. Due to the "distressed" sound, I wonder whether I have an amp or cab problem and will try first a different amp (better not necessarily louder) and if this doesn't improve things I'll look at trying other speakers, reserving the lovely Vanderkleys for folky/jazzy duty. Christ - I must be getting old! Thanks everyone - I'll report back.

Thanks everyone. And I do "get it" - however, you have described the guitar players accurately - 50-100W all valve amps with 4 x 10 Marshal speakers. (x2 sometimes). And a crap PA with no monitoring. I'm not actually trying to get louder, I just want the sound that I make to be clear so that I can hear it. I do wander off into the front of the band to listen, I do play around with the EQ (mostly on the bass leaving the amp flat) where necessary, I don't use any of the "boost" features or tone shaping. I stack my cabs or lift them off the floor so that it's not just my ankles that get the full lustre performance. But the tendency is, even if I practice loudly (viz 4 meter square room) for a decrease in tone quality as volume increases. I am in control of my part of the equation (or want to be) and I still want to get a better sound for the sake of argument, at reasonable sound levels. It might be that I'm just being picky but there you are. There are a lot of Basschaters discussing amps and speakers with much more clout than mine so I'm probably not alone in looking for a "better" sound (rather than a louder one), and really the question was, should I look to "improve" the amp or try different cabs. So far it seems that headroom might be a limiting factor to the D-Class Amp that I own so I guess buying a second hand amp, eg Ashdown RM 500/800 or ABM600 (although the description of the Trickfish for sale on here does sound enticing) might test this theory (oh and some ear defenders and probably a new band!)). So thanks Owen - I think you're diagnosis fits. Might I ask, of the amps you tried, which worked well for you (and which weren't so impressive)?! Hey Ho!

Thanks - that's helpful. Lots of headroom I guess.

Yes, completely agree a clearer rather than louder sound is what I'm after. And whilst the current set-up delivers this at lower volumes, as soon as you get to louder settings the clarity goes. How do you ensure a "clear" sound? Is it an amp thing or ???

Phil - thanks for the warning - you're right - one of the bands is just too loud and maybe they either reduce the levels or I should seek an alternative! However, it's the tonal quality of the bass, rather than not being able to hear it, that's the issue. Even with a "less-than-really-loud" band the tonal quality isn't really what I'd like - OK, it is still loud, and "yes" ear defenders could be a good idea. I guess the sound at 9 o'clock, maybe 10 o'clock is good enough, but anymore the quality deteriorates (not distorted as such, just "unclear") from 9.30 onwards. So the shopping list is; 1) Ear Defenders, 2)?Amp, 3)?Cabs. However, I get the feeling from the responses so far, that it's more a volume/amp issue than a cab issue. Is that correct? Thanks everyone for suggestions to date and the warnings re. hearing (which is probably pretty poor already - certainly the high frequencies are a little lacking - well apparently those that are produced by female (the wife's) speech!!!) ,

P.S. ABM 600 or Rootmaster 500/800?? Not much difference or ......

Lozz - What's the fan noise like at practice levels? My only real experience of fan noise with amps is with my current amp and this is certainly very noticeable at low volumes. Maybe I'll treat myself to a big amp (eg ABM 600 or equiv) and a little quiet amp for practice and quiet sessions. So far everyone seems to be saying Amp rather than cabs so perhaps I should focus there first. Thanks all

Really? It does say 500W at 4 Ohms on the unit and so I was anticipating 250 at 8 Ohms? Or is my physics even worse than I remember. My workings-out are; with one cab rated at 300W and 8 Ohms the amp delivers 250W and I don't destroy the cab whilst with 2 cabs at 8 Ohms each (giving a resistance of 4 Ohms) I get a louder output of up to 500W without damage. Or ......????

I've tried ......... so many many times!!!!! But hey, I'm only the bass player.

Help needed ........ and I know this has already been done to death ... but worth a try. My current set-up is an old pair of Vanderkley EXT 112's(each 300W/ 8 Ohms) and a Eden Terra Nova 501N.(500W at 4 Ohms). Great for most stuff and really portable and flexible (one or both cabs) For practice and moderate volumes it's really nice, but when playing loudly there's a certain loss of definition to the sound. And by loudly I mean VERY LOUD - 2 guitars, keys, drummer, vocals ..... post 80's Rock! Set for max gain without clipping, EQ flat, and around 12 o'clock on the master (can be more but after 12 there's not much left!). The treble is turned all the way down on the speakers. To improve this I'm not sure whether I should be looking to upgrade the speakers or the amp or both - so thought I'd ask. I've tried various amp/cab combinations, but in the shop they all sound OK. Favorite to date was the Mesa Subway 800+ with the Subway 12 inch cab and 15 inch cab in tandem. But this is a bit steep price-wise as I'm certainly not an "advanced" bassplayer. And I'd be far too inhibited to try such amps at volume in a shop! Probably, not interested in lots of high frequency detail/hifiey sound, but do like a clean sound i.e. I don't like overdrive etc! So folks - amps, speakers, or both and maybe £1000 budget with second hand an option! Oh, and I'd prefer cabs that aren't too heavy (hence the 2 VK's at 13kg each). In terms of amps, as long as I can pick them up one handed that's be fine. I certainly don't need something really light, but wouldn't want something I couldn't easily carry! Otherwise, I like the idea of the Ashdown ABM 600 Evo IV, (but would the fan noise be intrusive for the non LOUD stuff?) maybe the Eich T500, or the Markbass LM111 or Little Marcus 500 (or 800) and and and ............. but I will need the grunt! Preferred type of music Blues Rock. I guess I'm old skool! Any obvious answers? Cheers

Thanks Smythe, I already have a modified Squire PJ , bought as a "scrap" bass which I've upgraded (pickups/pots/wiring, high mass bridge, TI Flats etc). It now plays well ( a real "find" in terms of playability), has a 38mm neck with rosewood fingerboard but I'm not convinced by the PJ compromise in this particular bass. Do you think the R&T offering would be significantly better? I guess I should go and try it to see as this would give me a useful comparison to what I have now. However, not having finished the en-suite yet I'm grounded for (yet) another week! I'll go next week and feedback here. Cheers

Lakland ....... now there's a thought ........ Thanks everyone - need to go and try some (bass) guitars!

Thanks all, SWMBO has insisted on finishing the house upgrade before being allowed out ..... I know ..... I'm a wimp, but it still looks to me like the next step is a trip to Bass Direct to try many of the guitars suggested above. So still a week or two to go before the great escape. Although, the black Squire MIJ P bass listed on here looks great....... but no .... I've got to stick to the "Ready, Aim, Fire" rules rather than my usual, "Fire, Ready, Aim!" modus operandi . That green Yamaha does look good though ..... Oh dear.

Thanks Smythe, Yes, I know R&T well, bought a few basses from them over the last few years. I do keep my eye out for what they have in stock, but as yet, haven't seen one of the above recommendations. I should pop over and see what is physically there I guess ....... but Vaughan's back and he is sure to sell me something!! Good reminder though Cheers

Thanks all, The Tokai looks interesting but I'm not, for some reason, that keen on the Jaguar - no idea why - I did try one last year and it was OK, but didn't really stand out. The Sandbergs also look interesting - I really need to get out and try the ones that are available ....... roll on end of March (floor done, bog should be in tomorrow so en-suite progressing albeit slowly........) The bass I have is a black PJ squire precision standard, special and the body looks OK, but I don't think it would merit any more cash spending on it. i.e. Status Neck. All in all, in it's upgraded form its pretty good - so I'm looking for something a little bit special that will hopefully keep its value over the years. And, yes, I have been down to Promenade Music and had several chats to Gary, who as you say is very helpful. I keep looking, but at the moment they don't have anything I'm looking to try out, but I'll keep an eye on their website. Any excuse for a bracing walk along the prom in Morecambe - at its best at this time of year, good for blowing the winter cobwebs away!

Thanks for all that everyone .......... I must be really getting past it. Not only have I posted in the wrong section of Basschat, but I'd forgotten that I once had a Warwick Rockbass which I really liked EXCEPT that it was hard work accessing the first few frets as they seemed implausibly far away - thanks for the reminder PlasmaZombies. I'm going to have to re-assess the Warwick idea although I don't use the first few frets much and don't really like using open strings - I should probably be looking for a 5 string!! I'm in the middle of installing an en-suite at home, but if I can get it finished with days to spare in March I'm going out! I don't care how long it takes, but I'm going to try out all the suggestions that have been made so far! All over the bleedin' country. And look at some amps and cabs (fancy the Trickfish and the Bergantino Forte for some reason!!). Ha, finally in the right section of the forum!! 🛠️

Thanks PlasmaZombies, I've never really fancied a Corvette, but I've no idea why not - I should try one. As a matter of interest, did the Streamer also "cut through" the mix (like wot a P Bass does, but of course sounding like a Warwick)? And, out of interest what did you move on to replace the Warwicks?

Thanks all, I'm going to have to stop dithering .... soon! The Yamaha BB's keep popping into the frame and I do like all the technical bells and whistles - so I'll have to go and find one to try. I have to admit that whilst my cheap second hand/improved Squire PJ was a real positive surprise, the new Fenders I have tried so far haven't "blown my socks off", whilst the feel of the Warwick was fantastic. I still want that P type cut through, so I will try out the Warwick against a Yamaha BB ?? 1024 and some PJ Bass non-fender basses, (and I have been looking out for a Lyte as this does sound promising) but I'd like to try whatever it is I might buy, which limits second hand stuff. Now, what excuse could I have for driving down to the midlands ....... And yes, I now realise I'm posting in the wrong section of the site - Doh!

Thanks all, I'll check these suggestions out. Any feelings on the Aerodyne??