Gottastopbuyinggear

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1501075945' post='3342290'] Have a read through this thread i started last year. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/293613-thomanns-the-box-pa-502-a-anyone-using-these-for-live-work/page__fromsearch__1"]http://basschat.co.u...__fromsearch__1[/url] Im very, very happy with the outcome. i just wish i had got these a few years earlier. [/quote] I've had a further look at the DB stuff, and I'm guessing the equivalent now is the Opera range, as the other ranges are quite a bit more pricey. Based on your thread I guess you went for 15's (?), which brings me on to: [quote name='deepbass5' timestamp='1501237796' post='3343482'] We Use an RCF PA which is great gear but also have 3 x 10" Alto monitors which are great and have used them as a small PA at Jazz jams I quite rate their gear, but don't go less than 12" for your main speakers. [/quote] Setting aside any potential differences in frequency response I've been going on the principle that max SPL is a reasonably good indicator of how loud stuff will be, and if a 10", 12" or 15" speaker are all within a dB or two of each other then, subjectively, they're probably all going to be able to go roughly as loud as each other? Is there any reason to suppose that the sound quality of a 10" speaker will deteriorate more, or more quickly, than that of a 12" or 15" as the volume goes up? Bear in mind that we are only putting vocals and keys through the PA, the keys get a HPF applied, and if we ever wanted to put drums or bass through the PA then we'd go for subs or trade up to more serious stuff like the RCF 735's.

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1501226419' post='3343374'] Not sure if it helps but I have a friend who is moving abroad and selling a heap of studio and pa stuff. He's open to offers on any of it and it includes a mackie pa with subs and tops. He's a top musician and a nice chap so I don't doubt the gear will be in good nick. I can easily pm you his list of gear up you want to take a look. [/quote] I'd be interested in a look at the list, and an idea of where he's located.

[quote name='Oopsdabassist' timestamp='1501178368' post='3343162'] No I sent a PM to Phil.c60 re his spare Yamaha PA, sorry for the confusion. [/quote] Yep, having read it properly now I can see that!

Thanks for all the replies. A few specific answers: [quote name='Raymondo' timestamp='1501144497' post='3342756'] If you have been happy with the PA you now have why not buy it? Your band mate gets his/her money and you get to stay on familiar turf; or is it too expensive? [/quote] The price that's been offered is, I think, more than it's really worth. Also, you could anchor a battleship with the powered mixer, and I'm keen to go for powered speakers for the added flexibility should anything go bang in the middle of a gig. [quote name='Oopsdabassist' timestamp='1501154009' post='3342860'] PM sent [/quote] To me? Sorry, I haven't seen anything - unless you're also doubling as another Basschat member who I did get a PM from last night?! [quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1501161034' post='3342954'] Did you look at my thread? The db's are made by a company who are owned by RCF so good quality. [/quote] I did, and the DB stuff is on my list to look at, but the ones that were in your thread are I think out of production now. Also, from a very quick look the similar sized stuff doesn't seem to be much cheaper than the RCF stuff anyway? As I say, I've not really looked at them properly yet, but I will do. For the moment I've emailed the rest of the band with a couple of "for instance we could..." scenarios, to see what they think about the overall price. In no way set in stone yet but one of the suggestions I made was the RCF 310s, a pair of Alto TX10s for monitors, and a UI12. We have a bit of a split between my usual "get quality and get it new with a warranty" approach and "surely we can get something relatively cheap second hand", although we may have learned our lesson on the latter with our current monitoring set up - £55 for powered mixer and a pair of 12" no name speakers from Gumtree!

Didn't see your comments on mixers, Phil, as our posts crossed.

I'd forgotten about Alto, but remember now that they seem to have been getting good reviews, so I'll definitely look into them. I hear the comments about RCF / Yamaha etc. being better, and I'm usually one to go for the best I can afford, but as we're not talking about refined vocal harmonies here (more enthusiastic amateur bouncing around while belting out Jumping Jack Flash) and technology moves on I have a strong feeling the current budget stuff will sound just as good as the ten or fifteen year old EV stuff we're currently using. Any comments on mixers? I'm particularly keen on something with some automatic feedback suppression, and the ability to get a couple of different monitor mixes would be good, as we usually have two or three doing BVs, so they need a bit more of themselves than we'd want in the singer's monitor. I'm quite keen on the Soundcraft UI 12 at the moment, but just a little wary of having to navigate through lots of different menus to get to something which is right in front of you on an analogue mixer. Ease of setup is quite important, as all the technical stuff falls to me and one of the guitarists and I'm now doing lights as well. That's one of the reasons why something where you can save settings for each venue would be good.

We're a six piece pub band playing mainly 60s and 70s R&B and soul type stuff, currently putting vocals and keys only through a powered mixer and a couple of 12" speakers. The band member who owns the PA is likely to sell it to free up some cash, so we'll probably be looking for a replacement quite soon. We're essentially playing for fun - we're looking at a maximum of a couple of gigs a month, so that limits the requirement and the budget we can justify. I'd be interested in people's opinions on the following: I've been looking at 12" or maybe 10" stuff like the Mackie SRM 450/350, RCF 312a/310a, and maybe equivalent Yamaha stuff. Good condition second hand would be great, or we might stretch to new, but the budget is probably between £500 and £700. We're not looking to mic up drums any time in the future, so we're basically playing to the volume of the drummer. He's quite loud though. I have in my head that it's probably new 10's or second hand 12s even at the top end of the budget. For our purposes will a decent pair of 10" speakers be likely to be up to the job? Does anyone have any views on any good "value" end of the spectrum kit - Behringer, for example? I'm quite keen on the idea of a rack mount digital mixer, like one of the smaller Soundcraft or Behringer mixers, as I believe they'll let us save settings for specific venues, and give people (the keys player, basically) the ability to control their own monitor mix. Having the ability to stop wayward fingers (the keys player again, bless him...) knocking any controls that they shouldn't be near is also quite attractive. However none of us are particularly experienced with live sound, so I'm wondering whether a more traditional type mixer would be a better option to start with. Probably looking to spend a couple of hundred quid on this. What do we think?

[quote name='drTStingray' timestamp='1500660006' post='3339488'] The mode around this is called mixolydian (sometimes called blues scale) [/quote] In danger of showing myself up here as I have very little theory knowledge, but i can't see how mixolydian mode can be called the blues scale - mixolydian is major scale with flattened 7th, blues is minor pentatonic with flat 5th? Genuine question - not trolling! With regard to Jean Genie, I'm sticking to G on the way up, G# on the way down, and it's come as a huge disappointment to me to find out that almost everyone else has been playing it wrong for years. Okay, now I might be trolling 😉

I think QLC+ is supposed to support this in the Activity Monitor - 2D View, though I haven't been able to get this working on my Mac - it may work okay on Windows, and I think I've seen it in demos/tutorials on YouTube. It's free so if you're using Windows it might be worth downloading it and giving it a try.

I have two of the RoqSolid and one Hot Covers. They're both fine but for the base level the Hot Covers one has a bit more padding. Also offers the opportunity for either a bit of amusement or a bit of a disaster as they tend to keep their shape when empty, so when you leave it in the corner inevitably someone will try to sit on it. On the other hand it's quite useful turned upside down with your coats, soft gig bags etc. stuffed in it at gigs.

[quote name='Northy' timestamp='1499354224' post='3330970'] Hahaha I actually mentioned that on the Talk Bass room I think, facebook at least. My guitarist friend suggested that might be a solution. [/quote] You two have beaten me to it, but that's the way I'd play it - G A G#. Maybe the faintest hint of a hammer on to the G# sometimes.

[quote name='MoonBassAlpha' timestamp='1498252375' post='3323490'] On BBC 2 now. [/quote] I'm watching. I saw them in Oxford in the very early nineties because my mate's band were supporting. I'm afraid I still don't get them.

[quote name='weeleigh' timestamp='1497353971' post='3317453'] Do the ADJ's give a good white light output? I'm looking for something that will light the band up from the front or the side, as well as giving a good colour lighting display. I was thinking of the Stairville's from Thomann, but I'm not convinced they would give a good white light output. [/quote] The TriPARs are okay. Perhaps not quite a true white, but I'd guess that if you were to run some as white with others running colours at the same time then nobody would be able to tell the difference due to the contrast between the two - the same thing as black on your computer's screen isn't really black at all, but next to other stuff the brain will perceive it as black. If you're looking for a true white then something with a "native" white capability would probably be better.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1497529029' post='3318883'] I'm now picturing your next gig ... [media]http://youtu.be/vWT0Fi01DPA[/media] [/quote] That gives me something to aim for!

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1497448408' post='3318250'] Only just stumbled across this thread, and deeply puzzled at the enthusiasm for foot controllers, midi, and DMX. All these things will eat up your time like you wouldn't believe, cause endless frustration when they don't operate as planned, add to the complexity of your set-up and break-down, and distract you at critical moments when you're trying to play. [/quote] Ah, I've got an answer for all those:[list] [*]Enthusiasm for foot controllers, midi, and DMX - I'm a bit of a geek at heart, so this is my idea of a little bit of fun. [*]All these things will eat up your time like you wouldn't believe - I'm a bit of a geek at heart, so this is my idea of a little bit of fun ;-) [*]cause endless frustration when they don't operate as planned - True, and I had considered this. I'm pretty sure the TriPARs can be set to default to one of the built in autorun programs if the DMX signal disappears, but even if not then it won't take long to switch four lights to one of the autorun programmes. [*]add to the complexity of your set-up and break-down - it's only one more box for the controller, and the DMX and power cables will be cable tied or gaffer taped together and daisy chained. I'm powering the controller from the same USB battery pack that I power my pedalboard from, so little additional stuff to do. [*]and distract you at critical moments when you're trying to play - You've not seen me play! Root, root, root, fifth, root... Seriously, though, the thing is designed so that one stomp will set it running through a predefined sequence unless I do something to change it. And I figure if guitarists can do all that tap tempo nonsense for their effects then I should be able to do the same for the lights! [/list] Also, did I mention that I'm a bit of a geek at heart, so this is my idea of a little bit of fun?

How frequently are you playing? I find that if I'm playing a two hour gig or rehearsal every week or so then I have no problem, but if it's less than that then I do (like martthebass) get blistering on my plucking fingers and maybe a little soreness on the fretting fingers. On the other hand, if you have very tough skin then perhaps you're playing a lot and it's just a symptom of building up that much hard skin - when I used to play 6 string guitar a lot more I had a similar cycle of building up hard skin which would sometimes start peeling off. In that case I'd actually suggest trying to soften the fingertips a bit by taking some of the hard skin of with a pumice stone or something?

So far I've bought two of the ADJ Mega TriPAR Profile Plus units, and one of these: [url="https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lixada-Interface-Computer-Lighting-Controller/dp/B00ZQNIAP8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1497011016&sr=8-1&keywords=usb+dmx."]https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lixada-Interface-Computer-Lighting-Controller/dp/B00ZQNIAP8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1497010946&sr=8-1&keywords=usb+dmx[/url]. I've also downloaded QLC+ and had a play around with it. The USB DMX interface works out of the box on my MacBook and on the Raspberry Pi QLC+ image. It also works on Windows 10 but needs a bit of fiddling about with installation of unsigned drivers, so not necessarily something for people who aren't particularly tech savvy. QLC+ is pretty straightforward to use, and there's quite a lot of material on the web. I've had no problem with using a MIDI interface to drive QLC, both to trigger the built in autorun programs in the lights, and to trigger scenes and chases set up in QLC. I've already moved on from planning to use the autorun programs, and have built some basic chases in QLC, mainly because you can use tap tempo, triggered via MIDI, to govern the speed of the scene changes in the chases. So for example you could start a song, tap on the first beat of the first bar, tap again on first beat of the third bar, and you'll have the scenes lights change every other bar. You can then speed up or slow down the changes as the song progresses. I tried this out at a practice on Tuesday as a "proof of concept" and it worked pretty well. I had a four button midi footswitch, with the buttons being blackout, full on white, start chase (or toggle between a change or fade chase) and tap tempo. The band were pretty keen so I'm going to order another pair of the TriPARs, and try one each side of the band pointing vaguely inwards and upwards, and two in front of the drum kit pointing up and out - sort of like this / \ / \ across the width of the stage (or rather the corner of the pub we're crammed into) as you face the band. If you get my drift... I'm going to build either a second four button footswitch, or just a single 8 button version, and then I can add the ability to select between a few different chases, both fades and changes, to stop it getting boring. Unfortunately we're on a bit of a hiatus at the moment while one of the guitarists is on holiday for a couple of weeks followed by the singer for five (!) weeks. We have a few gigs lined up from the end of July, though, so I'll get a chance to try the set up out in a gig situation then. Happy to share more details on the footswitch if anyone's interested - it's based on a Teensy 3.2 board for which there's a MIDI over USB library, so for anyone who's done any basic coding of any sort it would be pretty easy.

An update - I've carefully researched all the options, arrived at an appropriate criteria for selecting a product, and carried out the selection process. When I took my blindfold off I found I'd stuck the pin in ADJ TriPAR (Mega TriPAR Profile Plus, to be precise). More seriously, the reasons I've gone for these are: - Readily available (next day delivery using my Amazon Prime, so I have something to play with this weekend), and still in production (The QTX 6 in 1 I was also looking at seems to be discontinued) in case we want to add more in the near future. - No fan, so less stuff to fail - Beam angle of 40 degrees, which is a bit wider than the other similar units I looked at, and might make a difference in the confined spaces we seem to end up playing in. - Compact, light. - Ability to daisy chain IEC cables as well as DMX (some units only have a power in socket) - Known brand, reasonable reviews. - Ability to select various autorun settings, and control things such as speed and sound sensitivity, via DMX. I've ordered a pair to have a look at. Based on that I'll decide whether to get a couple (or more) more of the same, or take a look at a different unit - the LEDJ 7Q5's being next favourite, and only a few quid each more expensive. The plan, which is a very grand term for something that may or may not happen, is to see whether the autorun programs will be sufficient in the short term without having to go too far with programming scenes and chases in a DMX controller. I am, however, planning to try QLC+ on a Raspberry Pi with a simple home built MIDI foot controller to enable me to change between some of the autorun programs as well as do full on and blackout. That's where the point about changing speed and sound sensitivity via DMX comes in, as I can't imagine wanting to fiddle around clicking menu buttons on the units themselves when I'm trying to set them up, but I can imagine tweaking a DMX parameter from a MIDI controller. If sound activated doesn't give a reasonable result then I'm hoping that being able to flick between a few different autorun programs with different speeds would be okay, and I'm confident that QLC+ will let me do that. I've ordered a cheap USB DMX interface from Amazon, the reviews for which indicate it'll work with QLC+, and I'll give it a go from my laptop before splurging the €15 for the Raspberry Pi build. I'll post an update once I've made some progress in case anyone's interested.

[quote name='citymariner' timestamp='1495486320' post='3304189'] I'd get 8 LED PARs - ADJ TriPAR or a QTX 6in1 or the like, 2 x t bar stands that go up to 3m in height. [/quote] [quote name='moonbass' timestamp='1495501775' post='3304283'] You could also look at the ADJ Airstream DMX interface [/quote] Whoa there guys - I don't think I'm going to fit that stuff into my two or three hundred quid budget! But it has given me a lot to think about. At the moment I think I'm going to propose giving 4 relatively cheap units a go, probably starting with just the built in autorun capabilities while I investigate DMX control a bit. The few COB units I looked at all seem to be pretty powerful, so taking into account the comment from moonbass I think they might be over the top for a small pub band set up, not to mention being relatively pricey. The ADJ TriPAR and QTX 6 in 1 look like pretty good options at around the £60 a piece mark, I think the QTX being favourite at the moment based on being a bit more powerful. I'm not sure what the LEDJ 7Q5 would give over those units other than a metal housing, though I'll need to make sure they're placed out of our singer's "jump zone". On the control side, I'm not keen on running stuff from a laptop, but I took a very quick look at QLC+ and see that you can run that on a Raspberry Pi, so that's really kicked my inner geek into life - especially if I could control it from the Arduino based MIDI foot switch box I built... On the other hand, the Chauvet Obey 40, for example, can be had for about £80 and that would give me the the midi control capabilities I think I want.

Thanks for all the responses. [quote name='whizzzy' timestamp='1495353513' post='3303089'] The other factor about buying low cost items is that often if you want to buy more units at a later date they have either been discontinued or the design has been changed. This can be very frustrating. [/quote] I'm still getting my head around DMX, but if my understanding is correct then the first three or four channels on a fixture will correspond to RGB or RGBW, so in general mixing different units shouldn't be too much of an issue? I'm not too bothered about mixing different manufacturers if the basic compatibility is ensured by the DMX specification (you should see the PA and monitoring solution we use!) but on the other hand a career in IT has led me to realise that one manufacturer's interpretation of a spec is often different to another. [quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1495406995' post='3303559'] I bought 2 of the stairville lights mentioned above [url="https://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_led_flood_panel_150_40.htm"]https://www.thomann....anel_150_40.htm[/url] one long dmx cable and mains extension cable, set them to sound to light and put them on the ground either side of the stage when we are playing. All fits in one box, and does the job fine. [/quote] Setting aside any issues with the quality of white you might get from those devices, do they put out sufficient light to give a reasonable colour wash? I know I'm probably not comparing apples with apples, but the maximum power consumption of those is stated as 18W, half that of the ADJ Dotz that Handwired mentioned, and less than a third of the 7Q5's which whizzzy and redbandit mentioned, so I'm wondering how bright they are. On the other hand, the only time I've played on a stage with a few PAR cans dotted around I found it a complete pain when I had one pointed almost directly at me and I spent half the night squinting...

I modelled the Faital driver in that box after modelling the 4 ohm version but it came out looking pretty bad. It could be my lack of knowledge, though, so I'd be interested to see the results if someone with a little more expertise tried modelling it - it's possible I made a mess of entering the parameters into WinISD.

I spent half an hour last night looking at some YouTube videos, which were specifically about the Chauvet Obey 40, but covered all the basics of scenes, chases, etc., so now I've got a bit of a better idea. That controller, and many others I'm sure, has midi input which would let me do pretty much everything I thought I'd want to do with a foot controller - triggering specific scenes, blackout, and chases. The only thing that might be useful which couldn't be done via midi is tap tempo. I was also looking on Thomann at lighting stuff, and they seem to have a couple of own brand ranges - Stairville and Fun Genration. A couple of examples, which are literally the cheapest on the list that could be floor standing: https://www.thomann.de/gb/stairville_led_flood_panel_150_40.htm https://www.thomann.de/gb/fun_generation_led_pot_12x1w_rgbw.htm Anyone have any experience with these brands? I know that to a certain extent you get what you pay for, and I'm usually an advocate of getting the best you can afford (buy cheap, buy twice, and all that) but these are ridiculously cheap compared to most stuff, and for a simple set up in a small pub they might be good enough. Not to mention the lower cost of replacement when our hugely enthusiastic singer jumps on them - I still need to change the pot in my boost pedal after the last gig... Could these be the Harley Benton's of lighting? Or are they the Kay's from my mum's seventies mail order catalog...

Some food for thought there. I've had a quick look at foot controllers on Thomann, now, so I'm already thinking that some basic programming capability might actually be a good thing. Would I be too optimistic to assume that you can mix and max DMX capable kit from different manufacturers without encountering compatibility issues?

I've been tasked to look into the feasibility of a small lighting set up for a pub band, just to avoid the "you can have the lights on or off" sort of scenario, and add a little bit of visual interest. I know almost zero about the topic, there doesn't seem to have been much discussion on here in the last couple of years, and I know that technology moves on quickly anyway. Being a six piece (2 guitars, keys, bass, drums, singer) space is usually at a premium so I'm not sure that T bars either side of us are going to be possible, but I don't know what the alternatives would be. Is it possible to mount something on speaker stands? Not looking for anything that needs to be programmed - just some multicolour lights that can change automatically or based on sound. Maybe a foot switch to kill everything, or light everything up full might be useful, if such a capability exists? Ideally something that can be expanded in the future if it proves useful/successful. Definitely only interested in LEDs - we've enough problems with cable trip hazards without adding stuff that can burn us or the audience into the mix... If anyone has any experience of this type of thing, or can point me to any good information resources, then that would be great. Budget? Not sure really - I don't like buying cheap nonsense that won't last, but I can't see us justifying more than a two or three hundred quid initial outlay.

Friday night Fortunate Sons played the Wicked Lady in Bridgend. Bit of a mixed bag - started out badly after we'd set up and done a quick sound check, when the pub asked us to move about 6 feet right so the drums weren't by the window - concerns about the sound carrying apparently. Then something happened on the singer's channel on the mixer during the first song so nobody could hear him, and after the first song we were asked to turn down. So we were a bit subdued through the fist set. However, to be fair the lower volume probably helped the sound overall (we only put vocals and keys through the PA and play to the volume of the drummer, but he can get pretty loud), and the second set started well with a few people up dancing straight away. We managed to keep the momentum going for the whole set, dropping a couple of slower songs on-the-fly to keep a good number of people dancing, and by the end we were all really enjoying it and felt we'd really turned it around after a dodgy start. Best part, however, was the encore - we had quite a few calls to "go on, play one more", and quickly picked Roadhouse Blues from our limited list of possibles. Almost simultaneously a guy came out of the audience, fairly inebriated by his own admission, and asks "Can you play Roadhouse Blues?". "Er, yes" was the slightly puzzled answer. "Can you play it in E?" "Erm, yeah?" I kept my eye on the punter as we launched into it - he went and delved into his coat pocket, pulled out a couple of harmonicas, picked the right one and came back at us with a questioning look on his face. It would have been rude to say no, and as it turned out he was absolutely spot on - knew how to play, and didn't out stay his welcome. Good result!