Rimskidog

D112 is a studio staple for a reason. I wouldnt go much cheaper but to be honest, you'd be better off to buy a decent DI. If you get a good one it will work great for gigs and for recording. The BSS AR133 is great bang for buck at the budge tend of the spectrum. An A Designs REDDI is awesome if you can afford to splash out more. [quote name='jensenmann' post='275870' date='Sep 2 2008, 10:40 PM']My 9098 is probably not exactly what the racked 9098 pres are because there were differences between the rackversions and the deskversions. My DIYpres are derived from the desk schematics. They are great allrounders with a very rich tone. Not colourful, more on the neutral side but they deliver a very detailed sound. Everything is there, nothing missing, nothing favoured. These are my goto-in-a-hurry pres, I can´t go wrong with them in any application. Never tried the Buzz audio stuff. I´m trying to stay away from the 500 series hype. I remember people throwing API desk away because they sounded too coloured - well, long time ago. Same with the old german broadcast stuff. Today the hype goes the other direction. Everybody´s crazy for analog nastyness :-)[/quote]

What is it that you think is missing from the sound you are getting? Once you know what that is work out what you need to do to put it back. Do you mean there is something missing when it is soloed or when you have everything going in the mix? If you are thinking of buying a DI I'd steer clear of Behringer. The BSS AR133 is awesome bang for buck.

www.myspace.com/circlestudios though am pretty bombed until Christmas

[quote]I am one of the people you are saying bands should steer clear of, and so in that respect I think that taking is a little personally is understandable.[/quote] I never said bands should steer clear of anywhere. I'm saying they should listen (I even explained how they could listen critically so they could judge for themselves) and decide for themselves whether the studio they are looking at will give them the quality they need for their particular prject. There's a time and place for a demo and there's a time and place for a full production. If bands don't understand the difference then they are not likely to get what they want. The OP said: [quote]we need to record a professional debut album for official release[/quote] but went on to make it clear that he didnt really understand the difference which was when I chimed in. (I think you said yourself at one point that a label wouldn't want an inexperienced producer.) All I'm saying is that there is a vast difference between hi-end and lo-end studios and band should know what they are getting themselves into or they may be disappointed later. That's it. I apologise unreservedly if you think this was in any way aimed at you. It was not. I'd be happy for you to come along and say hello and chat about recording when I'm quiet sometime if you wanted to. If not, that's fine too. I'm outta here.

[quote]Rimski, you seem to be saying that you NEED experience to get a good drum sound. Have a listen to my stuff, I get a good drum sound![/quote] Mate, this was never about you though you seem to be taking it very personally. In any case, I have listented to the Prem Ejacs and maybe we'll have to agree that it's all just subjective eh...!

[quote]Well, it's subjective. I think that a lot of the "benifits" of an expensive purpose built studio with expensive equipment are lost by the time a piece has been mixed, mastered, and burnt onto CD.[/quote] Okay. Have been holding back but here we go. This is just more evidence that you need to invest in some decent monitors. Grab a commercial cd of a signed band that you think sounds like the Premature Ejaculators and a/b between them. If the difference doesn't blow you out of the water then... well let's just say that you seriously need a better listening environment. [quote]I'll take my guitarist's martin down to my room on saturday and do some samples with my cheap sh*t mics and cheap sh*t pre-amps etc. I'd be interested to hear an honest opinion of the "quality" of the sound.[/quote] Which slightly misses the point. The problem for home recordists generally is in stacking tracks and mixing the outcome but I tell you what, wouldn't it be more interesting if after you've done that you bring the same Martin down and I record the same thing and then we can put the tracks up for people to a/b. Better still let's get a band to volunteer to be guinea pigs and we'll both record and mix the same track. My diary is bloody awful fro the next several weeks but it should be doable by, say, Christmas. Now I really gotta get moving!

[quote]buying there own equipment and being a big part of the production process when they reach the "top" anyway,[/quote] Absolutely right, but they usually hire an engineer in and rarely take over producing until they have many years of watching someone who knows what they are doing. Like I made clear in the first place. I wasn't slighting anyone on this board and didn't comment adversely or otherwise on anyone's work. I was just saying that you get what you pay for and young bands shouldn't be fooled into thinking otherwise... and this is especially so in respect of mixing. A mix engineer without a decent monitoring chain is about as good as a chocolate fireguard. You only have to flick through myspace to hear the results. It was very real to me at the point I posted because I was working with a young band who have a real talent for songwriting. They paid decent money to a local studio and got crap delivered back. They aren't the worlds best musicians but the studio made them sound even worse than they are (and they used one of the most 'popular' studios in town). Here's a tip for you all. The most obvious way of spotting a recordist who has no idea what they are doing is to listen to the drums. Most obvious of all is the snare drum sound. Does it have a solid crack or a puny fft? Does it sound like it would if you were in the dront row listening to the band (snare drum is a LOUD instrument)? Kick drum: does it sound solid and can you distinguish it from the bass guitar? Drums generally: do they sound as 'present' as everything else or are they way back in the background. Do the cymbals add a gloss to the mix or is it painful to listen to them? Overall can you clearly hear all of the instruments in turn and do they balance well? If you can't hear all of these things then absolutely right, you shouldn't be paying any more than the bear minimum for a recording. But, as someone said above, don't expect the radio stations to play your stuff or a label to pay for it. Anyway, better go get my flight. Cheers all T

ask yourself this... would you rather have 5 at best mediocre quality recordings or one really great one that makes your band sound special? [quote]But comparably with today was it great equipment really?[/quote] Erm...yes. That's why vintage gear attracts such a premium now and companies are scrambling to make clones of the old gear AMS-Neve/Chandler/Telefunken etc) - because it sounds awesome.

[quote]im sure anybody who has an idea on how to work all 'that recording stuff' is capable of getting the sound requested.[/quote] Interesting idea but to be frank, you get exactly what you pay for in this game. If it was as easy as that why would the labels pay top dollar to go to abbey road if they could get a kid with an m-box for less than a hundred quid? Young bands usually find that out the hard way. Buy cheap, buy twice is a good adage because it contains more than a grain of truth! To get a great recording you need to get great musicians playing great instruments through great sounding amps in a great sound room, the engineer needs to be experienced enough to select the right mics and put them in the right place and combine them with great preamps. Great EQs and compressors are a useful addition. A great console might be the icing on the cake. Great monitoring is an absolue requirement. Great production vision in addition to great production techniques are invaluable to really make a song come to life. As for editing, as my friend and mentor Michael Wagener once said, 'we sell emotions, there are no emotions in a grid". Furtehr, if you aren't going to tape then you'll need great converters. A great mastering engineer using great equipment in a great room with great monitoring will add fairy dust to the top of your mix. The cost of such greatness? You won't get much change out of £300,000. That's why making a great record costs so much. [rant over - and chedda please don't take this as a slight at you as I can see you are offering your service for free which is laudable and IMO the right way forward until you've honed the art - it's more a railing against the idea that anyone can do this without knowing a damn thing about it which appears to be rampant nowadays and which invariably leaves young bands being disappointed at the product they are presented with in exchange for their hard earned!]

www.myspace.com/circlestudios [quote name='et1058' post='239382' date='Jul 14 2008, 06:08 PM']Can anyone recommend any studio's in the North-West who would provide a great recording / production of metal music? Thanks Et[/quote]

A Designs Reddi does this well too. As does Ampeg's own standalone DI/Pre

[quote]how many tracks we're likely to get sorted in the two days we have booked...[/quote] Depends what you want. If it's just rough recording you want then maybe 4-6. If you want it to sound like something you hear on the radio then you might get one done if the engineer is shithot. If he tells you he can do more than that well...

[quote]little Baby Baby Blue amp - and the fact that it's basically a "studio reference" amp (i.e. people in studios like them I guess)[/quote] Sorry to burst a bubble but it's marketing guff. You're pretty unlikely to find one in a real pro studio (unless they were being given away free with bagels at AES or something and even then it's probably being used to hold upen the door - sorry)!

I'm guessing my Alembic Spyder (number 4) must be up there. I think the list price is about £12.5k

Thanks dude!

Material is great. V catchy. Recording/mixing quality is disappointing (how appropriate given song title). Happy to pm you with specific comments if you are doing production yourself. If you paid for this, go kick the engineer.

Cheers guys!

[quote name='nick' post='206429' date='May 26 2008, 11:28 AM']Hi T, Thanks for the feedback - really constructive. Never thought of the Jam - but that's a nice compliment. Bass was actually mic'd up through my old WEM, but I know what you mean, it does sound bit light. Think on next recordings we're going to do, I'll use my Rickenfaker & stereo it out to two separate amps & also take a DI through a Sansamp. At least I'll have three tracks to play with in mixing. Agree with you totally on the drums, again this is something we'll have a look at. Vocals - after listening to them again in more detail, I hear what you're saying. Thanks again - much appreciated[/quote] No worries. A pleasure. [quote]I'll have three tracks to play with in mixing.[/quote] You mixed it yourself? Oops. Sorry. I'd have gone easier if I'd known! If this is a DIY job it really isn't bad at all you know! Give me a shout on www.myspace.com/circlestudios when you are ready to make it 'sound like a record'!

ok. First things first... I think the material is great. Catchy tunes with good hooks. I also think that you guys have real talent. Reminiscent of the Jam in the 'sound effects' era (which I'm a big fan of) I've got to say though, sonically I'm not sure you've got the most you can out of these recordings. They sound a bit thin and lack punch. They also lack in width and depth. In more detail...(listening as I type) basics first, the things that need more work are as follows: The bass is very light. Needs to come forward more. Sounds like a pretty low end DI has been used. (I also suspect the mix room is either poorly treated or not treated at all) There's also a huge space in the mid range. This sound more like an arrangement thing more than anything. You could fix a lot in both of these by splitting the bass track below and above about 350hz, compress the low end with something like an 1176 to tighten it up, add some distrotion to the top end (maybe using izotope trash or a sansamp) Kick has a nice click but lacks oomph, snare is a bit on the puny side, lacking in body. Don't like the verb on the snare, sounds cheap - d-verb maybe? I nice plate would do a lot more for it. Mic choice on the vocals is a bit suspect. It's not working terribly well with the vocal. Vocals are also a bit far back. I'm also not a fan of the reverb on the vocal though it could be brightened by EQing out everything below about 1k. I like the BV's but they need to be pushed wider. Given the sonic issues it actually hangs together reasonably well. I just think if you sorted out these issues it could be a LOT better. Hope this is useful. T

Do you want comments on the material the playing or the production?

... looking for a UK supplier of Sadowsky strings so thought I'd say hello. Been playing for 28 years. Am a freelance recording engineer. About to open a high end studio in Birmingham. Current basses include an Alembic Spyder, a Warwick Infinity Ltd, a '72 Fender Jazz and a custom mahogony neckthrough number with Seymour Duncan Quarter Punders and a Badass Bridge. Amplification from Ampeg: SVT3/PR410 and a fliptop. Favourite DI: A Designs REDDI. Compressor of choice is a Urei 1176 (F Rev). So... anyone know where I can grab a box of Sadowsky's in the UK? Am not back in the US until August and my supply will have run out by then!