XB26354

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='200620' date='May 16 2008, 06:25 PM']there's a birdseye maple NS5XL which has been on display for a while there, it doesn't have any hang tags on it. I wondered how much they wanted for it though.[/quote] Is that in London? That was up at £2900 but it's been there over 2 years(!) so who's gonna say £2K cash to get it off their hands?

No, I'd don't think it is a lecture at all - fascinating to hear someone else's viewpoint I'd say that you're right about the raking aspect - whilst superficially quicker it is clumsy and at high tempos there is a loss of note definition and control, unless it is a Jamerson-style rake using open strings. I would say that for me the most important thing is the quality of each note, how it sounds. I don't think a technique should ever com before the sound. Every bass player I have heard and seen using a free stroke 4 finger technique can play very fast, but I don't like the tone - it sounds thin and scratchy and lacks oomph, and tbh only seems to work well when playing on one string/one note - again what finger are you going to use on the next string up? I actually think Gary's idea about ascending using the third finger is very logical. It is a little weaker but I had more problems with the open position ascending. Closed position was really comfortable. Doesn't seem to be a problem for piano players - and they use both hands If you look on Youtube and watch Matt Garrison, he switches between 4 fingers and 2 fingers. Imho he sounds so much better with 2 - the notes are rounder, more horn-like in their tone. The other reason I wouldn't really consider 4 finger technique is that there is no easy way to damp lower strings when playing on the G (or C on a 6). At least the standard technique or Gary's style leaves the thumb covering the bottom strings. I think the proof of the pudding is that Gary looks more relaxed and effortless playing than pretty much every player I have seen. I think he put years of effort into it, so that may be what's necessary to get to that level. Another point is that the bass is still very young - just under 60 years old - and no "standard" technique has really come out. Sure index-middle is the most used but there are so many other techniques (and a lot of players don't even strictly alternate i-m anyway) it'll be interesting to see if anything does become more popular in the future...

[quote name='mcgraham' post='200461' date='May 16 2008, 02:36 PM']That must help! Now, I identified several key issues with using more than two fingers. The main issue I identified (after a year of using 4 digits) was that the permutations of which fingers you change strings on are numerous i.e. on an 'x' note phrase, there are 4 different fingers you can start with or change to a different string with, as opposed to just two. So for every practice exercise you have, you (ideally) need to practice it 4 times over starting on a different finger. That's a [i]lot[/i] more work than just two fingers. That ultimately means you spend twice as long getting your technique together compared to doing the same with two fingers, possibly longer due to the higher level of co-ordination required. And the work that people throw at multi-finger techniques is amazing, imagine what could be accomplished if they threw that much dedication at two finger playing. I'm not saying abandon it, (as I use 3/4 as and when I need to) but certainly consider that the permutations alone may impede your progress. Mark[/quote] Some valid points there. I think Gary Willis is different from the 4-finger guys in that he has a very strict system worked out based on a smallish number of set moves. He also plays all rest strokes, which imho have a much better tone. I couldn't get my hand to relax with that third finger really, so I have regressed to using index and middle with the occasional thumb for now... The only example that is very difficult to play using just index middle is doubled octaves (i.e. low A-A high A-A). Try as I might I cannot get that to be efficient at a fast tempo. It is physics - you have no choice but to move your whole hand. "River People" by Weather Report is commonly the hard workout for that kind of line. Play it with Gary's technique and it becomes very easy. As the third finger is there on the string ready to play you can do single or doubled octaves very rapidly (like on his video - I know I can't play them anywhere near that fast, that cleanly!). He has two basic positions - open and closed - and I don't see any problem with his ability to play very fast I think tbh he is one of the few guys that actually worked out a system, and he must have spent a long time training both hands to work as light as possible and be totally relaxed. I've seen him play right up close (lessons!) and he looks like he's using zero effort, even when playing hard lines. Plus he gets [i]such[/i] a fat tone. Back to the woodshed...

That is one gorgeous J base! CAR?

[quote name='fleamail' post='199918' date='May 15 2008, 08:56 PM']What is the nicest jazz bass you've ever played? And why? I am asking because I really love the jazz bass sound but I can't find the right instrument for me! There's always something missing. Since now I've owned one Mexican, one 65' Japanese Reissue, one 62' Japanese Reissue and one custom made from various parts(US body, status graphite neck and antiquity pickups). Share your experiences, please![/quote] The Sadowsky Metro and Celinder are very nice but expensive. The Geddy Lee (Japanese) sounds great, and has a Badass to boot (about £600-650). For a purely passive bass the US 1975 reissue has loads of poke (but is around £1200). Fender Marcus Miller Signature is quite nice too. Have you tried one with a maple fingerboard? They tend to have a little more zing...

Freddie was MJ's bass player on the HIStory tour (and Dangerous iirc). I saw a clinic with him at the Bass Centre back in the 90's where he slapped the bass part to Smooth Criminal, very, very tightly. Also sounded great just playing a line by himself. Saw him a few months ago at the Royal Albert Hall with Steely Dan. That guy has got serious groove and [i]always[/i] swings

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='199357' date='May 15 2008, 10:25 AM']Wulf's right too although I have rarely seen anything actually written in Ab. [/quote] Donna Lee

[quote name='Oscar South' post='198718' date='May 14 2008, 01:44 PM']Surprised at the feedback towards this. Few key themes would be: -"Whats the point of entering if I can't be sure I'll win?" -"Whats the point of entering if theres no prizes?" -"We're not capable of handling voting/feedback/competitiveness properly" Musicianforums.com (probably the most immature music forums on the internet) has been running these successfully for years and I figured that they'd work better on a forum with a less stupid user base. Its not about prizes or 'commercial exposure', its about friendly competitiveness, getting a few more people to hear your music, getting some decent feedback and having fun using bass in a less traditional way. Anyway this thread served its purpose.[/quote] I'm all for players getting more exposure here (and getting to know each other better). What's the point having a competition that isn't formalised with some kind of reward? Every competition has a winner (and a prize) so how can it just be friendly rivalry? As someone once said - if the score doesn't matter, why keep a count Which leads me back to the key point - how you gonna judge who is better? I like a lot of players but I couldn't say any one player is the best.

[quote name='mcgraham' post='198473' date='May 14 2008, 08:31 AM']Really? That's really quite interesting, all the classical guitarists I've watched tend anchor in some form, be it movable or absolute.[/quote] There's always some form of anchor, even with a "floating" thumb - got to dampen those lower strings. As the thumb is needed to play bass notes and bottom notes of chords (and occasionally for strums a la flamenco) there is no particularly strong anchor on classical guitar. The hand positions look similar, with a comfortable, straight wrist and relaxed plucking hand. I stumbled upon the floating thumb technique as it removed all tension in my fretting hand. I'm happy to play a variety of techniques, depending on the line. The only style I would say is a big no-no is to anchor your thumb on the pickup and leave it there whilst you play all 4/5/6 strings. This puts a severe bend on the right wrist (which gets worse the higher you wear the bass), puts tension in the hand when you play the upper strings and leads to a loss in fine control when playing quickly.

I'd respectfully say that it sounds like an invitation to polarise people based on their musical tastes. Everyone has their own appreciation of music and bass playing, and it is difficult to say who is "best" between two players in totally different genres or eras. I think it would be nice to expand the recording forum to allow people to post examples of their playing which can be (positively!!) criticised based on the playing rather than recording quality - no descending into a slanging match though. Personally speaking I don't particularly go for thrash metal, but I can definitely appreciate talent and ability as well as good song arrangement. Note choice is personal and therefore very subjective, but I'm sure the more experienced members here could offer praise or encouragement in general terms (like how well the bass fits with the drums, or with the style of music etc.) To have someone say "that is sh**" would be rude, counter-productive and start just the kind of arguments that BC would, I expect, hope to avoid. Didn't someone recently post an example of their music and get some very rude replies? What I would say is that a competition that would be very difficult to set criteria for, with no commercial recognition (or prize) would not seem to make sense - and as others have said, whilst there can be "better than", there really can't be a "best" in bass playing, or music.

This is not a new technique. I have been using it for years too. Classical guitarists have been at it for about 250 years too

I'd say the Squier VMJ - an astonishing bass for the money, a couple of my students have bought them and love them. Try a few if you can though - quality does vary. I played a couple of OLPs and whilst they looked nice and had a definite Stingray tone, it sounded cheap to me. The VMJ also had more tonal variety - I didn't find the SC Pickups (Seymour Duncan designed I believe) to be any weaker than your typical passive Jazz. The Sub is, I think a lot more money so difficult to compare.

I also adapted to using floating thumb technique. It becomes more useful on 5- and 6-strings. Whilst Gary Willis has phenomenal technique I could never get that third finger to relax enough and the whole thing felt uncomfortable (and I had several goes at it over about 6 months). His technique is also extremely difficult to master if you have wide string spacing as your third finger must stretch to reach the upper string. As it goes through the string at a different angle you get a different attack, so it doesn't sound right. It also becomes very hard to keep your hand relaxed. I found that as soon as I lifted my thumb off a string my whole hand relaxed, and I could play far more fluidly and rapidly. I use it to damp the bottom strings where there is still a sense of placement, so I guess it's just what feels best to you. It doesn't work so well for big string skips so I have added using the thumb for bottom strings and i/m for the upper strings. I prefer to adapt my technique slightly to suit the line rather than being stuck with a one-size-fits-all technique that falls apart when you try to play quick octaves or chords. I haven't played 4-string for a while but none of these problems seemed to come up so maybe it is just 5 strings + that create these kind of issues with the plucking hand...

That Lull is over £2K ;-) Also consider a Sadowsky Metro M5/R5-24, although it comes with no scratchplate and humbuckers. The Jazz 5-24 is of course much cheaper but I'm willing to bet the B sounds pretty poor. Sadowskys have a great B-string.

[quote name='TKenrick' post='181856' date='Apr 21 2008, 02:27 PM']Here are some jpegs of the transcription for those who want it, I've used it before and it seems to be accurate...[/quote] Don't want to split hairs but the quarter notes in bars 5,6,8,10,12,13 etc are all quite short and should be marked staccato. There are also many other examples of notes that are written too long. One of the best aspects of Anthony Jackson's part on this tune is his control over note lengths. He varies between a lot of staccato notes on beat 1 of the bar (especially if it is a quarter note) with occasional held legato notes. It what breathes life into the song (something which machines could never do) Bar 14 beat 2 is clearly a low D, not Eb... Bar 37 is in no way in 6/4 - this would indicate a change in beat division from 2 to 3. The underlying pulse or beat does not change throughout the song. It is a bar of 4/4 plus a bar of 2/4. Otherwise the chart is good - fills look right, especially that killer one at bar 87 (although the eighth and sixteenth notes at beat one should be beamed together.

[quote name='lukeward2004' post='191943' date='May 4 2008, 11:50 PM']Funny you guys should mention it, Ive just had to learn "Aint Nobody" for my band, ill see if I can transcribe it for you - its pretty easy though, its in E Minor I believe its as follows:[/quote] It's in Eb minor. Most charts in magazines and music colleges transpose it up to E minor so it can be played on a 4-string bass (although there is a low Db and D which, in E minor would become low D and Eb, so it can only really be played on a 5-string+). I wouldn't say the part is simple though - the structure is straightforward but making the transition between the octaves and position shifting from Eb to Cb (or E to C) as smooth as the synth bassline on the original is not trivial. When I was in music college years ago it gave even more advanced players a bit of a headache (not to mention the poor drummers trying to emulate a drum machine!). The tempo is about 108 too so it's just quick enough to provide a bit of a challenge

[quote name='Mottlefeeder' post='196244' date='May 10 2008, 10:06 PM']Whilst I agree that you can pull the neck towards you if the body is lower, I have great difficulty in playing that way. I got rid of a bass because it was neck heavy, and I was not comfortable with that. YMMV, but it is a point worth considering.[/quote] The way I see it is to put your arms into the most comfortable position without the bass (as if you're playing), then that's where the bass goes. When I say "lower" I mean no lower than waist/hip level. The neck will then sit at roughly 45-degrees (depending on the shape of your body and of the bass). In this position arms, shoulders and hands are relaxed, both wrists will be pretty much straight and you have the optimum reach to the low frets without the high frets moving too far away. It kind of resembles classical guitar posture, but standing up. Just look at old videos of Mark King or Norman Watt-Roy to see how uncomfortable and tense their playing position looks (especially when playing fingerstyle with the very bent right wrist). High strap position will equal pain at some point. The fact that you had a neck heavy bass is a separate issue. A neck heavy bass will be uncomfortable in any playing position. I too have got rid of more than one bass because the headstock was too keen on visiting the floor

[quote name='AndyMartin' post='194644' date='May 8 2008, 01:11 PM']Everyone from Portsmouth is a sailor Welcome to BC Mathew[/quote] Damn - Olympic white jazz with torty scratchplate always give me GAS!