28mistertee

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1488483046' post='3249397'] It can be if EQ in the amp and/or an active bass is trying to get out of the speakers what they can't give. [/quote] I'm going to put it down to EQ as my problem bass is a passive bass although it has high output pickups. Thanks yet again for some great advice throughout 😉

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1488477583' post='3249327'] They are, because the bass is producing mainly harmonics at those frequencies. [/quote] So it's not a problem with the cabs then? I've heard many who prefer the sound of a big old school cab if that's what Dan is referring to.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1488471872' post='3249265'] OK, so it's just the one bass that is causing this problem and the other 2 are fine. So I'd say the indication is that there is nothing wrong with your gear, that buying new gear would solve, but your set up and/or EQ for the SB1 needs looking at. If the DI is just levelling out the volume you're still running your low B with the EQ that you use for your other 2 basses. You might need to change the EQ for the SB1. I'd guess you're overloading the signal from the bass, or from the pre amp. Does playing the SB1 on its own, no Sansamp DI, get rid of the problem? Or how about taking the volume of the SB1 down a little more than the others? [/quote] I haven't used the SB1 without the Sansamp as I normally use all 3 together and yes the Sansamp is there to level all 3 volumes as close as I can. Obviously the eq on the amp stays the same throughout and I try to adjust the levels using the level and eq on the Sansamp which isn't an easy job. I've noticed in the past my SB2 (standard tuning) has also made the speakers pop on occasion so maybe it's the MFD pickups in both basses which are very high in output. I do run an 80s BC Rich with Seymour Duncan passive quarterpounders in and this particular bass sounds fantastic. I used to use a Marshall vbc412 which whilst was very heavy I could just plug in and it sounded great whichever bass I was using.

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1488462553' post='3249162'] I'm inclined to think your bass may be a player here... Why not pop down to Bass Direct in Warwick - about an hours drive from you... That will at least let you isolate the various components.. Or you're welcome to pop over to me (a little bit further) - I have five strings, different amps and cabs... Bring your stuff along as well.. [/quote] Mark I'm going to drop you a pm after work. Thanks I appreciate that 😊

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1488463769' post='3249181'] I'm assuming you mean the Double 212 and the Duo 210? There are various versions, 4ohm, 8ohm and 16ohm. Which are yours? Glockenklang say the Double 212 can be used with all of their other cabs. That indicates mixed cabs are not an issue. What bass and amp are you using? Glock's are aimed at the clear sounding end of the market so if your sound is "muddy" it's got to be you, your bass or your amp. If your amp is new, what did you use before and did you have this problem then? A 400 watt valve amp is going to be a monster so do you get this problem at low and medium volume levels? Do you use pedals? [/quote] We use 3 tunings so I use 3 basses where my G&L SB1 is in B which is the problem tuning. The pickups are very powerful so that could be problem. Amp I have a Mywatt400 and I have a Sansamp DI programmable mainly to help keeping the volume of all 3 basses at the same level. Cabs are both 8ohm. As Mark said I need to try other options I think just to eliminate problems.

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1488460894' post='3249136'] Bill and Phil are generally good people to listen to.. However I'm a bit surprised your Glocks are having issues with standard 5 string tunings... If fact, really surprised.. Could it be your bass? Not sure where you're based, but you do need to try before you buy... If you tell us your location we can probably find someone living close who has a good rig to compare with or find a shop.. [/quote] Yes had lots of good advice off many on here in the past, this forum has helped me out no end. I was thinking mismatched driver sizes although maybe it could be eq because I've gone to an all valve head. I do like the cabs things just get muddy when in B territory. I have a 4 string tuned to BEAD as I don't get on with 5s all that great. I'm near Leicester by the way.

[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1488459139' post='3249107'] The problem is that the specs you need to know are the specs that manufacturers don't reveal. One reason why they don't is that many don't know themselves how their cabs perform, that totally botched chart from Ashdown being a prime example. Manufacturers talk about inches and watts, the two least significant factors where both low frequency extension and output are concerned. Your only options are to try before you buy, or to build your own. The big advantage to building your own is that you're not buying a pig in a poke, you know what drivers are in your cabs and what they're capable of. [/quote] Maybe I'm getting to concerned on figures, good advice. As for building my own I wouldn't know where to start. That said sounds like an interesting idea.

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1488450798' post='3249003'] What make and model are your current cabs ? [/quote] Glock 212 and 210, I may try a single cab at the next gig then buy another the same.

Apologies budget wise I'm happy to spend around 500-600 pounds for one cab with the train of thought to add later. This should give me something decent especially used. I may even try using just my 212 at next gig and see how that sounds then I could always buy another.

810s are overkill I think in pubs although I have considered going midway and getting a 610, not too much of a problem either now I have a van and helpful band members. Would it be possible that the mixed drivers are the problem? A two cab solution is ideal but maybe different to what I'm running. I got a 210 and a 212 rated 400w each but now have a 400w all valve which I love. I just want to get the best out of it and feel stuck at the crossroads at the minute.

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1488441360' post='3248901'] I'm not as cynical as many over manufacturers figures but it does pay to be sceptical. In general the figures they give in the manuals often vary from the claims in their advertising so if you want to look up their specs go and see if there are downloadable manuals. In the end though you need a lot of techie knowledge to interpret the figures, which aren't all measured in the same way, and even if you can they will tell you little about what the amp or speakers in question actually sound like. You simply can't make a sensible buying decision based on figures. Having said that an understanding of the numbers is probably something we all acquire over time and no knowledge is a bad thing. Let's have a look a the low frequency response first. Rounded off 30Hz is low B and 40Hz is bottom E. However we can't really hear those frequencies very well and unless you had the pickup on the 12th fret it wouldn't detect them very well. Roughly speaking only 10% of a bass note is fundamental and that is buried beneath what we really hear, which are the harmonics. Bassiness is often just as much about the balance between the different harmonics as the actual note played. The crucial area for a bassy sound is generally around the 80-160Hz area. So stop worrying about frequencies and whether your system needs to change for your low B and start trying out speakers and amps with your own bass. If it sounds good it is good. On the techie side that frequency response graph for the Ashdown is just like a thousand others give or take. They'll all be the same shape more or less, the hills and valleys will be different heights and in different spots and that will affect the sound but few people will be able to guess how they sound from that info. What they will all do is droop down at the bottom end and at the top. That's why a frequency range of 50-6000Hz doesn't tell you much. Speakers don't cut out frequencies they just droop! Hi fi speakers usually give the response at -3dB and that is the figure used when you are designing speakers. Most bass speakers don't tell you where they measure the lowest frequency from but 10dB down is a common figure, that's what I used in a design I published here. That Eden may have a perfectly decent bass and the Ashdown may be better or worse, without more information you just can't tell from a single number. Finally the bit you are missing is that we can't really hear deep bass, almost nothing below 50Hz and it is routinely removed from the PA and in studio recordings as unwanted noise. You'll come across high pass filters like the Thumpinator that are used by bassists to kill everything below a certain frequency, they usually report that they can't hear any diffeerence in the low notes other than that everything sounds cleaner. [/quote] Thank you for the well explained response. Maybe a filter could be what I need to remove the low frequencies. It's not necessarily the need to have a really bassy low B but more the need to have an efficient set up that doesn't fart out and have the clarity of the low notes there. I've tried various eq settings but another analogy is it's maybe mixed driver sizes (I use a 212 and a 210) currently)?? All sounds great in standard tuning but below that can get muddy sounding and I've even made the drivers pop on occasion. I've read on here before that maybe a 210 and a 115 would be a better bet as the cone areas are closer matched in both cabs. However my other train of thought is to just run a single efficient cab with one size driver. I used to run a Marshall 412 and I loved that sound but sold it because it was a big heavy thing, mind you I have a van now which makes life a lot easier 😉

[quote name='grandad' timestamp='1488400316' post='3248699'] I would echo much previous advice on BC and say trust your ears. A quick web search found this fairly friendly item: Interesting links, thank you 😊 . [url="http://www.ecoustics.com/articles/understanding-speaker-frequency-response/"]http://www.ecoustics...uency-response/[/url] and then this rather interesting item: [url="http://www.post-gazette.com/business/tech-news/2007/05/25/Sound-Advice-Bose-keeps-sound-specs-under-wraps/stories/200705250301"]http://www.post-gaze...es/200705250301[/url] Most articles seem to understandably concentrate on hi-fi systems. [/quote]

It's fair to say then as Bill says the figures mean diddly squat, problem arises for amateurs like myself you don't know what your buying. Trying before you buy is all well and good but not always viable especially if you have to drive a couple of hours to view a cab and you nine times out of ten you can't hear it at a decent volume or in a gig situation. I play mostly in standard but the we're venturing into B more and more now so I need a speaker that will handle that.

Probably another amateur question but what figures are the most relevant when researching into cabs. Frequency range, SPL etc??? Basically I've been looking for a 115 or maybe a 410, I've been advised to look into 15s as I use the low B a lot. I was looking at Orange OBC115 or 410 or Ashdown ABM115 when I came across Ashdowns Foundation 410 which according to specs the frequency goes as low as 30hz. How accurate are these figures? My other surprise is the Eden 410xlt which I've heard is renowned for its bottom end yet the spec frequency only goes as low as 50hz. Am I missing something here or should I be more interested in the SPL figures. Thanks in advance.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1486486937' post='3232214'] I`ve got a couple of these on the way, a 210 and 115. I know the theories about different speaker sizes but this pair were decently priced, and every other 210/115 set-up I`ve had has worked great so am taking a punt. [/quote] I'm intrigued by these Lozz, be sure to give us a review;)

Been playing bass for a few years looking at giving double bass a go. Looking for a teacher near Leicester to point me in the right direction. Happy to travel a little for a good teacher. Cheers.