danlea

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='183320' date='Apr 22 2008, 11:06 PM']So you wont get smooth response from 35 to 45 Hz, you will get a hole at 40Hz because of phase cancellation from the 45Hz port.[/quote] Not necessarily. It depends on the relative contributions of the drivers and ports at that frequency. And in any case, if the destructive interference below the tuning frequency significantly reduces the amount of bass just below the tuning frequency (and I'm assuming that the combined waveform is not phase-reversed), then having two cabs tuned to 45Hz is not going to give you any decent amount of bass there, whereas if you have one at 45Hz and one at 35Hz, at least you have some (reinforced even) at 40Hz. My low E is stronger in the latter configuration than the former.

[quote name='Merton' post='182831' date='Apr 22 2008, 02:53 PM']Hehe. Whereabouts in London are you? Do you wanna come try my 1153 before you buy the one you've seen? I'm about 30mins from central London on the train...[/quote] That's very kind of you and thanks for the offer, but I think it's probably more hassle than it's worth for me. I'm buying the cab for £100 (it does have a fair old white paint mark on the grill and some damage to one port, nothing that affects the sound though apparently) so there's not much risk involved - only some wasted time and maybe £10-20 loss. Dan.

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='183082' date='Apr 22 2008, 07:01 PM']On most cabs you don't have an option of tuning the ports and I would guess that most makers will have all their cabs tuned to the same frequency (except the Peavey cabs I had) so they work well together.[/quote] But what makes you think having two cabs tuned to the same frequency is best? As I've said, my current rig sounds best (in my opinion) when the 2x10 is left tuned to 45Hz and the 1x15 is tuned down to 35Hz. Yes the maximum 'loudness' of the 1x15 is decreased, but I never need to run it at max (infinite baffle is unfortunately a step too far, and the cab then doesn't put out enough bass for rehearsal). While my decision to use this configuration is down to listening to all possible setups (well, all setups involving no more than two sponges coz that's all I happen to have), my explanation for this is precisely because the tunings do not both try to reinforce the same frequency range, meaning the bass is more even on the way down. The Funk has noted that the tunings apply equally to each cabinet. It's simply my experience that tuning the 2x10 down isn't as effective, and if I want to boost the low E on my bass, I'd rather boost it on a fifteen than tens. One final note (I think pushing the topic much further is probably akin to flogging a dead donkey): The 1x15 and a 2x10 or a 4x10 is classic combination, used by countless bassists. Even if it's not to everyone's liking, surely there's good reason for that.

[quote name='Merton' post='182721' date='Apr 22 2008, 12:57 PM']The USP of the old TRrace range! Both unplugged for xHz, one plugged for yHz and both plugged for sealed. Never bothered plugging mine, mind. Dan, I think you'll be surprised about the 1153 cab (that's the one you're looking at getting). IME the 2x10 had a better bottom end than the 1x15. It's a nice Trace-sounding cab, don't get me wrong, but the 2x10 is "nicer" and kinda support bass_ferret's argument that another 2x10 offers the best solution.[/quote] Ah! I spent too long on getting the text and you beat me to the answer! Ok, so I have two people suggesting the 2x2x10 option now. This does intrigue me because I have the 2x10, and have tried it, and I don't prefer it's bottom end to my 1x15 combo (and I can't imagine that the larger 1x15 cabinet is going to be worse than the combo). Perhaps we just have different ideas of what constitutes a 'nice' bottom end. I love the sound of fifteens, at least with my precision sound. I can imagine preferring all tens for a jazz sound (which I shall have soon, thanks to Champion Badger), but of course it's all speculation, and as bass ferret rightly noted, theory is useful, but it's what you hear that matters. All in all I'm looking for a warm rounded tone more than I am a really punchy one, so the 1153T seems a good option for now. It's also the safest option given that I do love my current tone, and this step is essentially that of least difference. I'd also like to at least try out the bi-amping facility on the new head, and the fifteen really should be more suitable for that (the Trace Elliot manual actually suggests this configuration for bi-amping, specifically in stereo, but it also applies to mono). Dan.

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='182717' date='Apr 22 2008, 12:48 PM']No it is not - hence the current popularity of gear like EBS, MarkBass, Epifani, GenzBenz that all claims to be transparent. Why on earth would you want to block the ports?[/quote] Well I don't need my cabinets to sound transparent, and it would be interesting to see how many people do (I honestly don't know the answer to that - I'm not being facetious). Given that the majority of bass players will sculpt their tone with EQ and whatever else they decide to use, they can tailor it to suit the cabinets being used. Why would I want to block the ports? Here is an excerpt from a Trace Elliot manual (I have the 1x15 tuned to 35Hz and the 2x10 tuned to 45Hz to give a good balance on the low end, but my previous comments refer to the cabinet as a whole, not just in this instance): [quote]The tuning of the enclosure can be modified by plugging or unplugging either one or both of these ports, the resultant tuning is as follows:- Both ports plugged = Infinite baffle enclosure One port plugged = Reflex enclosure tuned to 35Hz Both ports open = Reflex enclosure tuned to 45Hz How does the tuning affect the sound? An INFINITE BAFFLE (both ports plugged) type of enclosure means a cabinet that is completely sealed i.e. nowhere for air to enter or be exhausted from the cabinet. In terms of sound this gives an extended low frequency response that is very even across the lower frequency range i.e. it has no peaks or dips in the bass response. However although the low end bass is very even and it extends further down the frequency range (below both the other tuning options) there is generally less of it than with either of the ported options. A REFLEX enclosure has ports for the air from the rear of the speaker to be exhausted from the cabinet or be drawn back into the cabinet. The air in the port in fact oscillates back and forth through the port or ports and can either be in phase with the motion of the speaker and provide a boost to the level of sound or can be out of phase with the speaker in which case it in fact causes a cancellation in air movement and consequently a reduction in volume level. REFLEX enclosures are specially ‘Tuned’ with the size and length of the port to a particular frequency that provides the correct rear loading to the speaker itself allowing it to work efficiently and safely and secondly to provide a bass boost at lower frequencies by using the air from the rear of the speaker through the port to add to the air from the front of the speaker, thus boosting the overall level of volume from the enclosure. This only happens when the air from the port is in phase with the air from the front of the speaker and this occurs at a frequency just above the tuning frequency of the enclosure. However as with everything else in life you do not get something for nothing because at high frequency directly below the tuned frequency of the enclosure the air from the port is actually out of phase and consequently reduces the volume from the enclosure, this is usually at such a low frequency that in fact does not really matter when considering the range of frequencies to be amplified. Providing the variable tuning facility gives the user the opportunity to experiment with tunings at both 35Hz and 45Hz to find out which works best for them in a particular instrument. Remember that the bass boost is at a frequency just above the tuned frequency and that cancellation occurs at just below the tuned frequency. How can this be used in a live situation? Bass sound changes a great deal from one venue to another, for instance if your speaker enclosure is situated in the corner of a room you will get a natural emphasis in low end from the walls of the room being at right angles. This can easily double the amount of bottom end in your sound just from the natural acoustics of the room. In this situation it would be best to plug both ports and use the infinite baffle response providing extended low end but less of it. If on the other hand your speaker is situated backed on to the flat wall and not near a corner then less bass will be apparent, it would now be better to use the 45Hz tuning (both ports unplugged) to provide a bottom end boost. I suggest the 45Hz rather than the 35Hz because the speaker is better able to handle frequencies from the 45Hz upwards than from 35Hz upwards and you will consequently be able to have your amplifier louder before the speaker complains than with the 35Hz option. If you are however playing at lower volumes or in a studio recording situation you may well find the 35Hz tuning useful as it will give natural boost to the bottom ‘E’ string (42Hz) and above.[/quote]

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='181799' date='Apr 21 2008, 01:24 PM']One final point, would you use different speakers on your stereo? Floorstander on one side and bookshelf on the other maybe? So why do we all insist on doing it with our bass rigs?[/quote] Ok, there are some fair points in your last post, but I don't think this one (above) is particularly pertinent. You wouldn't generally mix speakers in your stero system because your creating a stereo sound-stage and you don't want it to be unbalanced. Also, music reproduction is a whole different kettle of fish to crafting a bass tone, as I'm sure you appreciate, in terms of transparency. With regards to 1x15s/2x10s, I wasn't making an assumption. I know that my 2x10 slightly lacks deep bass on its own (and can't handle higher volumes when I tune it down or block both ports), and that the 1x15 provides it, despite it's compact size. As it happens I've noticed a Trace Elliot 1x15 that looks to be the exact same dimensions as my 2x10 available second hand, so most likely I'll be getting that anyway. Thanks for your input though. Dan.

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='180384' date='Apr 19 2008, 11:29 AM']Nobody said you had to take my advice. I did not say get a 4x10, I said get another 2x10, then you would have 2x2x10 which is the same as 1x4x10. Show me a 1x15 the same size as a 2x10? If you want to mix totally different sounding cabs go ahead, fill your boots. But if you dont want advice that contradicts what you have already decided to do then dont ask for it.[/quote] Who said I didn't want advice that contradicts me? I said my bit, you said yours, and I added some more - where's the problem? I have no problem with your response, and I don't see why you should have a problem with mine. With regard to your cab configuration suggest, I hadn't got exactly what you were saying; I did think you were suggesting I should get one more 2x10 on top of a 1x15. I'm not sure what you're saying about sizes. The 2x10 extension cab I have is bigger than the 1x15 combo (volume-wise), and adding another 2x10 (if it were the same size as my current one) would make something a lot bigger than a typical 4x10; it would also not sound like a 4x10, it would sound more like a louder 2x10. I need a 1x15 as I like the sound of them, but I do need some 10s to drive my mids, hence my original position. And thanks Garry, but I do need a 1x15, as per above. The question for me is, do I want a Hartke aluminium cone 1x15, or some other paper cone 1x15? I think at the price, I'll go for the Hartke. If it doesn't work out, I can just sell it without making too much of a loss.

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='180328' date='Apr 19 2008, 09:27 AM']I dont usually think its a good idea to mix cabs and I personally would look for another 2x10 so you can combine them to get a 4x10.[/quote] While a 4x10 would be nice, I'm a gigging bassist and we use estate cabs to transport our equipment. Getting a large 1x15 is already a step in the 'how do we get this all in' direction. I don't see why you shouldn't mix cabs (other than for aesthetics), especially if your going to be splitting the frequencies (although I'm not certain I'll be doing that if I do choose to buy the Hartke). And no, I can't have one side full range and the other high/low pass with this amp. Dan.

There was a blind test of two different recording rigs (mixing desks actually I believe) at Olympic Studios while we were mixing, which was apparently attended by loads of really big names in audiophilia, and the person who was most successful at distinguishing the two was a handy-man at the studio! Anyway, the relevance lies here: He said after winning that he likened the sound of one them to a precision bass, and the other to a jazz bass. He prefers the sound of a jazz bass and so just chose the one he preferred every time! Fantastic!

Also skim-reading = convolution of scan-reading and skimming (the Squier P-Bass Special of fast reading).

It doesn't seem like anyone's mentioned anything about the sound difference yet (either that or my skim-reading has gone downhill). A precision pickup excels at providing a deep, open bass sound with a rounded treble. It focuses on the fundamentals of a note (the actual note you're playing) and people who generally play with a plectrum will generally play a precision rather than a jazz. The jazz bass provides more emphasis overtones giving more body to the sound and making the bassline stand out more in the mix. If I were to use letters to describe the sounds I would type the following: Precision => 'pohmmm' or 'bohmmm' (treble on/rolled off). Jazz => 'trrrrr' or 'drrrrr' (treble on/rolled off). The jazz effect is similar to what you're generally trying to achieve with overdrive with valves. Dan.

[quote name='dannybuoy' post='179586' date='Apr 18 2008, 10:51 AM']...the extra volume boost can just end up pushing the amp into more overdrive instead of boosting the volume...[/quote] Indeed, and that's fine for a valve amp, but you'll generally be trying not to overdrive the actual preamp if it's at all solid state.

I've just bought a Trace Elliot AH600SMX (mint condition, £361!) and am trying to decide what cabs I'm going to use with it. I currently have a compact TE 1x15 combo with a 2x10 extension cab, and the main reason for buying the new head is so I can use a large 1x15. So, I'm very tempted by the Hartke 115XL (only £155 delivered from Absolute Music) to give real focus to the low end, and keep using the TE 2x10 - probably using a crossover around 250Hz. I've used a 115XL + 410XL stack (with Marshall bass amp) once before and I have to say it sounded really smooth, something you wouldn't necessarily expect from the aluminium cones but something a lot of people have noted. However I do love the tone of the celestions, so I'm hoping I can keep that by using the Trace 2x10 but add a more direct deep bass sound by using the Hartke 115XL. Any comments, warnings and such? Dan.

You have three precisions, and two of them are identical apart from the fretboard?!? Greedy son of a $%^"£ $%&^ing "$*% $^%! I'm just jealous. Sunburst and tortoise shell all the way! There's no better choice! Hang on... Is the horizontal one touching the floor!?!?!

[quote name='tauzero' post='174438' date='Apr 11 2008, 11:43 AM']...all my experiments with the Precision taught me that actually basses all sound the same.[/quote] Ok, there's definitely some heresy going on in this topic, but I'm going to assume the above comment was made with tongue buried firmly in cheek! I can't imagine my post will be read by many people after all this, but here's my current opinion (and this is of course subject to change once I get my Marcus Miller jazz with active/passive switch): Primarily this issue is about the quality and nature of the preamp. I disagree with a previous description of the passive sound as being 'direct' and the active sound as being 'over-engineered', not because of the intention of the explanation, but purely due to the wording. If you wanted to hear exactly what would be going on in the pickup itself before you've done anything to it, you'd want an 'ideal' operational amplifier - one with infinite input impedance and zero output impedance. Of course such a device doesn't exist, but in any case that's probably not what you're after. An active pass is closer to this situation than a passive bass due to the short length of cabling to the preamp for starters, and I would say (partly for this reason) that and active bass has a very 'direct' sound. Now a good percentage of the bass playing population will talk about pure valve pathways, and this due to the fact that the electronics attached to a pickup also interact with it and affect the signal that is drawn from it, even before you've done any processing (e.g. equalisation). Valves interact differently with pickups than solid state electronics do, and this is why I like to have a valve as the first piece of active electronics after my pickup. You can't very well put a properly driven valve in your bass guitar now can you! Of course putting any signal through a valve will alter it, and a lot of the character of valve electronics arises due to this, rather than through what I've just been talking about. Or alternatively, this kind of sh*t might be largely irrelevant, and it might be due to the different makeup of pickups designed for active or passive basses. Experimentation required I believe...

Cheers! Glad you liked the tracks, and even that you listened to them in the first place. As always there are some things which didn't work out quite as we'd hoped: issues with the upright piano, having to use a digital piano for JSG (and LTP, but that's fine)... The thing is the piano is supposed to be more of a driving force a lot of the time, but the sound often doesn't quite live up to the part, meaning it can seem to be something of a distraction, so I know what you mean. In any case, I'm very happy with them overall. Thanks again...

I use Orange strings, heavy gauge - 50-110 I think. I'd get angry at lower gauge strings...

They're not heavy enough to cause neck dive, but I have one and it makes no difference for me whatsoever. I use heavy gauge strings, so that may be a reason for this, and I can't say for certain that it didn't make any difference to sustain as I do use mild compression on the low frequencies and didn't do any rigorous testing. I've only tried it on my Fender Jap Precision and an American Fender Deluxe Precision, so not extensive testing!

Well it doesn't bother me because I've put it by itself in a true bypass effects loop (which I use for a tuner mute anyway). I should say I don't overdrive my preamp at all (Trace Elliots simply aren't designed for that kind of shenanigan), but yes, very different uses. The noise is most definitely the pedal as it's the same as what it makes when engaged, only much quieter. Having thought back, it might only have been noticeable when the valves were actually squealing after the knobs had been knocked.

Cheers guys. I've just realised there's a forum for repairs stuff, so sorry for posting here.

I might be up for this, though I'm extremely light on effects. I only use my DHA pedal, and have a few other pedals (Digitech Bass Squeeze, an old style DOD Chorus, and a Trace Elliot 7-band Graphic EQ). I rehearse at Premises Studios in Hackney, not very far from Liverpool Street station. Or there's The Joint in King's Cross (just thinking about people travelling into London). Of course I live near Euston/King's Cross, so I can get pretty much anywere in London fairly easily. Dan (Lea).

I have the non-custom version of this and I use it purely for the ultra-high gain mode. This is because the clean sound to me doesn't improve anything given that my amp's input is blended to about 70:30 valve:ss and the moderate gain sounds as you've said are much lower volume ([post="171501"]see this post[/post]). Without that extra volume level control, the extra setting is effectively useless for me, but of course the second valve is not. It's the combination of these two valves that gives that great overdriven sound. I use the pedal in front of my preamp and so my fairly typical EQ setting is applied to the valve tone as well, and I love it (I'll be posting a song that employs this soon)! The other thing I should say about this pedal is that when using high gain settings it does produce noise even when in true-bypass mode (yes, it is possible due to capacitive coupling, and in any case is an issue on my particular pedal). Perhaps you could let me know if you can observe the same problem (crank both gains and adjust the 1>2 to just lower than the point at which the valves start to squeal) and listen in bypass mode.