BigBeefChief

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='313897' date='Oct 24 2008, 03:40 PM']The existence or non existance of God is a possibility. It has to be as we are discussing it. In science you always start from a "i dont know" position. If I put 10 arguments for Gods existence to you, even if you disproved each and everyone it doesnt disprove God just my arguments and my finite intelect. There is always the possibility that there is another argument for his existence that you can not disprove. Equally 10 arguments that God dosen't exist could be defeated. Doesnt prove God doesnt exist. Just that you don't have a watertight arguement for his non existance. Equally the fact is there is the possibility that there is an arguement I have no answer too and proves God doesn't exist. There fore it can't be proven eitherway- this I why I said I dont see the logic of defulting to atheism.[/quote] Because of reasonable doubt. Lets face it, we can't prove anything. Life could be a dream. But we can make some pretty safe assumptions to get to an approximation of the truth. If I drop a ball it will fall. I havn't dropped it yet, so I may be wrong, physics may have changed in the last second. But its a pretty safe assumption. Prove to me that Santa doesn't exist. I was with my GF when she bought my christmas present last year. I saw her wrap it. But Santa may have crept in on Christmas Eve with an exact copy and switched it round. I think its safe to say that he didn't and that he's an invention to keep kids behaving in the run up to Christmas. In the same way that Christianity that has kept the uneducated masses behaving themselves for centuries. It amazes me that mugs are still fooled by it.

[quote name='dlloyd' post='313878' date='Oct 24 2008, 03:20 PM']You see lists here and there on the internet, but they're not hugely impressive, unless you regard the Bible as literal truth.[/quote] But some of it is meant to be taken as litteral truth. Religous folk have a sliding scale which they move depending on what's currently deemed acceptable.

[quote name='stevie' post='313839' date='Oct 24 2008, 02:30 PM']or to the virgins waiting in heaven for the suicide bombers.[/quote] I've always thought I'd prefer a few old slags waiting up there for me. I'm sure you can't catch a dose in heaven.

[quote name='noisedude' post='313679' date='Oct 24 2008, 12:00 PM']It's not a bad effort but, like I say, it's a way off being a good analogy. Keep trying though, because I want to believe![/quote] There is no good analogy for peoples faith in God because it's so ridiculous! This forum always makes me feel like I'M the nutter! God? A dude in the sky with a beard? Plagues of frogs? Parting of seas? The fella who's meant to be watching when your having a sly Barclays? (perve). I thought that even people who go to Church don't believe in it. I always assumed its just a social thing and people hedging their bets 'just in case'. Or people who want to get married in a pretty church. I suppose on the other hand, he (i mean He) did give RocknRoll to you (gave RocknRoll to you...)

[quote name='noisedude' post='313665' date='Oct 24 2008, 11:45 AM']I guess the difference is that we [i]know[/i] you're human (just about, and certainly nothing more ) so we have no reason to believe you're not a delusional weirdo. If we had never seen you BUT we had some experiential evidence that you existed via observation of your superpowers, then we would be looking at a worthwhile analogy.[/quote] Noisedude, you've never met me. Who's to say I'm human? And I created the universe (again, prove I didn't) - is that superpower enough for you? God communicating via a bass forum is as likely as doing it through some hippy in the middle east and a book of questionable origins. And Kant is one.

[quote name='dlloyd' post='313647' date='Oct 24 2008, 11:10 AM']Well, I'm an ex-believer, one who's fallen slightly further than most, but I'll give it a go. There's a number of classic logical arguments: There's the ontological argument which goes something like this: God is a perfect being by definition, and since existence is more perfect than non-existence, he therefore exists. There's the cosmological argument, which argues that God must exist because there must be a first cause. There's the teleological argument, which is the whole watchmaker thing... life and the universe exhibit complexity and apparent design, therefore there is a designer, God. Then there's the moral argument, which states that without God we could not have morality. They're all pretty weak in my opinion. The ontological argument was the one that used to annoy me most. I'm not convinced at all that existence is perfect. The teleological argument and moral argument have become less and less convincing the more we know about biology and the big bang theory goes some way to explain a first cause. Of course, you can take Stephen Hawking's approach, turn all these arguments around and say that God is the laws of Physics... I don't know that you'd want to sing to them on a Sunday. Religious belief is a faith position. One that I refuse to criticise.[/quote] You're right. They're all very weak. Some great minds have been Christians, and this is what they come up with? One of my main issues is that both God and Jesus have beards. What are they trying to hide? There are only 2 people who can get away with beards: Chuck Norris and bilbo230763(*). (*) They may be the same person?

[quote name='noisedude' post='313573' date='Oct 24 2008, 09:42 AM']Well..... can you??[/quote] I can, but because I move in mysterious ways (or some such sh*t) I don't feel the need to prove it. You just need to believe me without a shred of evidence.

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='313457' date='Oct 23 2008, 11:52 PM']Conversely if you believe in God you will find much evidence of his existence.[/quote] Will a beleiver please show me (and the rest of the world) this evidence? A baby being born or a summers day doesn't count! [quote name='LukeFRC' post='313457' date='Oct 23 2008, 11:52 PM']Logicaly you are unable to disprove the existence of a God, and equally you are unable to prove it. In questioning God's existence to default to Atheism is illogical, really following scientific logic, through objective eyes one would be an agnostic.[/quote] Rubbish and nonsense. You're better than that! Can you prove I can't read minds? Or fly unaided? Or turn cheese into gold? Go on, prove I can't.

[quote name='Rumble' post='313524' date='Oct 24 2008, 08:27 AM']As such, I'm not sure science will ever categorically prove or disprove God's existence. Enter faith.[/quote] You mean "Enter blind faith"?

[quote name='Rumble' post='313327' date='Oct 23 2008, 09:27 PM']To refer back to mcgraham's bacon analogy; I personally love bacon. I could justifiably say that I find it difficult to understand how mcgraham couldn't like it, but it would be fair to say that to start calling him a delusional cretin because he doesn't like bacon the same way I do would, I hope you agree, be unnecessary.[/quote] The trouble us aetheists have is that there are a numner of scientific reasons why people enjoy different foods. Unfortunately (for some) there is no evidence of the existence of a God. And this is always the sticking point. Imagine me telling you, at 26 years of age, that I still believe in Father Christmas. You'd think I was joking. If I was insistant, you'd think I had mental health issues. If you mocked me for this view, no one would complain. I'd be a running joke. You would certainly take everything I ever said with a large pinch of salt. If you step away from yourself and look with objective eyes, this whole god business is all just a bit, well, silly. How am I meant to believe in God that refuses to prove his/her existence. All we have to go on is a book that contradicts itself throughout and is of questionnable origin. I don't care what people believe, but I think they deserve the same gentle ribbing that I would get if I still believed in Santa.

[quote name='ARGH' post='313142' date='Oct 23 2008, 05:37 PM']If you play headless ....you're gay If you have expensive woods on your Bass,You are a prick All Bassists are failed guitarists.[/quote] Agreed.

1: Erky Leadbetter 2: Tyrone "Downtown" Darnell 3: Marv Milton

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='313015' date='Oct 23 2008, 03:00 PM']I'm all aquiver with anticipation.....[/quote] To be honest, I'm not sure your Jazz mind is ready for it.

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='313012' date='Oct 23 2008, 02:48 PM']Most reading musicians on most instruments do so without looking at the instrument they are playing and, as such, are reliant upon muscle memory so this is not a credible argument against ERBs. My argument is that the physical demands of the wide neck militates against the effective execution of much that would warrant the effort. My earlier 'I am still waiting' comment relates to a previously expressed willingness to accept the potential of these instruments but I have yet to hear anything played on an ERB that I would consider sufficiently beautiful enough to justify the effort and expense of their production. The day I hear something that moves me (rather than impresses me), I will salute the ERB as an instrument that has come of age. Until then, I consider it to be nothing more than a curiosity.[/quote] Bilbo, I'll have to post a link or some of my playing for you. It's not just technically brilliant, but can move mountains.

GROAN.

I haven't liked any music I've heard on these things, but its of real no surprise. I detest the majority of music. Given that so few mucians play them, the chance of me hearing ERB music I like is very, very slim. Be interesting to see if all bass players traded in their 4/5's in for 8/9/10/11's what the output would be? No doubt there would be some jazz w***ery, but there could be some good stuff? Who knows? Some of us (me included) would stick to only using 4 strings and moaning about the weight and string spacing, other would probably learn to love it. Usually, in these threads, someone says "but it's not a bass" or "why not buy a guitar?". I never understand this really. I couldn't give a sh*t what its called or what instrument it is. Call it what you like. Personally, I see more interest in having a go on one of these than playing a 5 string (which I hate with a passion). If you're gonna push the boundaries, do it to the extreme.

Cheer up bass_ferret, at least he didn't ignore information that was previously posted in the Wiki. I believe that's another pet hate of yours?

That bloke at the Abundent Life Centre definitely looks dodgy. Very cult-ish. If religion/God was so great, why do they need to recruit? All they do is prey on the vunerable in society (hookers, the homeless, drummers etc).

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='312169' date='Oct 22 2008, 03:08 PM']I'm watching The Mighty Boosh live show tonight.[/quote] Was f***ing sh*t.

I've got a Jazz with S1 and use it constantly. I couldn't imagine not using it really. Sounds crap without it to my ears. But I've never been a fan of versatility.

[quote name='mcgraham' post='312264' date='Oct 22 2008, 04:23 PM']Well, as it seems I've got to put a disclaimer on anything I say in this thread, so... Personally, I find that unless lyrics have some cohesiveness or a story I can reasonably follow more or less from start to finish, I tend to lose interest in the lyrics and pay attention to the underlying music. Unfortunately for me a lot of contemporary music, at least in Britain, is built on pretty poor lyrics, and the underlying music is not much better (again, IMO). So, I turned to more or less totally to instrumental music. Joe Satriani is a big personal favourite, Hiromi is also good, Laurence Cottle, Guthrie Govan, Brett Garsed, Charlie Hunter, Barber (particularly the Excursions) etc. I listen to a fair bit of jazz but if it sounds good I'll listen to it. Stuff with lyrics, some of you may cry 'hypocrit' but I like some of Van Halen's work, the Eagles (Wasted Time is a beautifully crafted song IMO), Dream Theater, Mr. Big. However, only certain songs of the artists with lyrics appeal to me. I'll look through my iPod and fish some out for you. Mark DISCLAIMER: this is just my opinion[/quote] Sorry, I meant Christian music!

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='312223' date='Oct 22 2008, 04:00 PM']mcgraham, can you point me in the direction of some decent contemporary, non-gospel music?[/quote] anyone???

mcgraham, can you point me in the direction of some decent contemporary, non-gospel music?

I'm watching The Mighty Boosh live show tonight.

I can appreciate the musicality of a number of hymns, and I also like some gospel stuff (and certainly music inspired by gospel music). I think its the "eyes shut, stupid expression, arms in the air and sway" stuff that I don't like. Quite frankly, those lot worry me. They should be on some kind of register. Can anyone suggest some more contemporary, non-gospel religious music to check out? It'll have to be on youtube - no way am I buying this stuff! Its a short step from there to buying a ranch in Waco.