Bilbo

I have to admit that I have heard some very interesting snippets of Louis Armstrong over the years and firmly acknowledge his contribution to the world of jazz and to the role of the soloist. Nevertheless, I don't own a single Armstrong recording and won't be buying one anytime soon. Like I say about many of the 'great' bass players, they may be great players but I just don't really like the music they play. Like Sinatra, I acknowledge the artistry but don't really like the product.

First year music lesson at Croesyceiliog Comprehensive School, aged 11. The music teacher played us two films; Peter & The Wolf and Ravel's Bolero. I was hooked from that day on and wanted to play. The school were s*** and didn't let me learn anything and I didn't get a bass until I bought one for myself aged 17 (my family would not have been able to afford one earlier). I still think music is a middle class luxury denied a lot of working class kids but that's my chip......

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='1066339' date='Dec 22 2010, 12:23 AM']love the other instruments around you more than you love the bass. (ie how can your playing help the other instruments sound good)[/quote] I like that, Luke. A lot.

First rig: Hondo II Precision copy through 90W Carlsboro Combo First gig rig: Aria SB700 bass (my brother still has it - don't get nostalgic - its crap) and a Sound City 120 W head and a cusom built 2x18 cab Last gig: German/Czech 5 string double bass and Eden Metro Combo. Also using my Wal Custom fretless 4 string through the same amp.

Teachers are sometimes known to 'big up' their students as it encourages them to keep going and, in turn, their parents to keep paying for lessons. I know that is a slightly cynical view but it is important to acknowledge that compliments about your playing are not always offered critically but can from a misplaced sense of loyalty or the desire the be positive. When you enter a professional world, this stops and you are judged on your abilities alone. This can come as a shock to anyone who has no real sense of their core skills. It is also important to note that some people who compliment you on your skills (and this applies no less to other musicians/teachers than it does to lay people) wouldn't know a good player from a bad one if their lives depended on it.

[quote name='mgibson' post='1065018' date='Dec 20 2010, 08:01 PM']Um, hello, this is hard for me to really get across well. I'm 15 and reliseing that playing bass is really what I want to do in life. I've been playing for less than three years but I'm like above grade 6 standard, I read sheet music (three days locked in my room), I'm playing in a band (how many 15 year old boys don't?), I'm playing in a jazz band (accredited by local big boys as the best ever school band they have heard), I'm playing scores for big bands and in a school production of Bugsy Malone and taking as many chance as I possibly can (which ain't many in rural Norfolk ). Oh I'm also taking theory lessons and DB lessons. (Blowing my own trumpet, described as 'highly gifted' and the 'best bass student I've taught') So anyway, it's really frustraiting 'cause I see all this insane bas players, more than a few of them preside on this here sight, and I go to myself how do they get there, I woodshed day in day out I listen to whatever the hell I can lay my hands on... So yeh, what I'm trying to say is that I want your help. I want to know where you learnt stuff like how to play over chord changes, how to construct walking bass lines, what to listen to and how to survive in the music industry. (Also if you live/have knoledge of the Norwich/South Norfolk music scene where I could get gigs or go see decent jazz stuff etc.) I know I'm over stepping the line putting all this stuff up here and expecting you to reply, but I'm coming through in the generation of tab and eighth notes, not transcribing and quavers, so please help, cause I want to be part of the future of bass and I don't want that future to be bland, dire infact, because so many other elements of music nowadays are. Thanks.[/quote] Some questions for you, m. You say you read sheet music and then allude to the fact that you spent three days locked in a room to learn how? Is that correct? If that is so, I think you need to get some sort of independent assessment of your reading skills as I suspect you have not got it nailed to the standards required by professional musical directors - can you read sixteenth notes in F sharp when the time signatures are changing from 4/4 to 5/4/to 5/8 to 7/4? Grade six reading is not yet to a professional standard. You are asking questions like 'how did you learn to play over changes' whilst also saying you are playing big band scores and are in a jazz band accredited by local big boys as the best ever school band they have heard? You also mention having theory and double bass lessons. If you are having lessons, why are you not learning this stuff already? To be fair, what I am sensing here is a lack of patience and an understandable desire to want to get it all together NOW!!! But a lot of this stuff is stuff that it takes time to absorb and to internalise. If you want to learn about walking bass lines, get a load of walking bass line charts (I have posted several here under the Theory and Technique section, as have others) and play them again and again. Get a book on walking basslines (there are loads) and [i]spend time [/i] with them. Soloing over changes is exactly the same; start with playing over one chord then add another and so on. All of this is stuff your teacher should get to eventually but, if s/he doesn't think you are ready for it yet, s/he will be giving you more basic stuff to deal with. Don't rush it and make the mistakes we all make of missing massive chunks out and having to go back again and again as we get older to plug the gaps we have left in our knowledge. There is only one way to get good; hours and hours and hours of tedious repetition. As for playing opportunities, you are 15 so some are closed to you (there is a jazz jam session at The Blueberry in Norwich on Monday nights but, as it is a pub, you might not be allowed in). Talk to your teachers, your friends and look in the local 'what's On' magazines etc. There are plenty of venues around Norwich to see jazz at but some of them are pubs where you won't be allowed in. Keep a look out for stuff in the theatres around there (there are several) and look out for jazz workshops (there are some in Bury St Edmunds soon but that may be a bit far). Its all out there for you but you can't absorb it all instantly. Some of it takes time to develop and rushing it is not in your best interests. You have the luxury of youth and time. Use it to your advantage and soak this stuff up at a sensible pace.

Never liked the physical feel of Jaydees - I find the few I have played uncomfortable. Status are better in my mind but I am a Wal man through and through and do think that they are worth the £3.5K asking price. Would order one tomorrow (5 string fretless) if the money was there.

Try one of the Bach Cello Suites but NOT the one in G Major because they will have heard THAT a hundred times before also!

It is an interesting phenomenon though, Mr. F. I have noticed since taking up the double bass and entering a new phase of consistent practice, that I clench my teeth when I practice. As a result, my jaw also aches and I have to make a concerted effort to relax my facial muscles. I believe that the best playing takes place when you are relaxed so feel that this is something that genuinely needs attention. So let's all RELAAAAAAAAAAAAX!

Emperor Jones by Joe Lovano Lotus Blossom by Duke Ellington (a solo piano performance played after the And His Mother Called Him Bill session. The LP was dedicated to the recently deceased Billy Strayhorn. If you listen, you can hear the band packing up to go home and Duke was playing his own tribute to Strayhorn. The engineer kept the tape running and captured a very moving ballad performance by the Duke. Its imperfections add to the magic).

I have never found an effect that adds to my sound but only detracts from it so I don't bother with them.

I forgot this but an early tonal influence for me was Jack Bruce on Cozy Powell's 'Over The Top'. It has stayed with me as a tone to go for.

Nymans - works for me but I am new to this also.

Well, its a year on from when I got hold of a double bass and six months since I got my own. I did a function gig with a quintet at Emanuel College, Cambridge, last Saturday. Straight crotchets all night but it was so in the pocket it came out stuck to an Everton mint and some lint. The drummer and I just locked in and stayed there swinging all night at tempos from slow blues to be-bop to great shuffles and one bossa. No Scott LaFaro licks, no flash and absolutely NO solos from me but swingadoodledo...... Got through without picking up the Wal and no blisters.....felt marvellous. For one night only, I WAS Ray Brown....doom. doom, doom, doom, doom, doom.............

All smacks of derivative blues licks played very loud and with a very clumsy technique. Sorry but I don't rate Entwhistle at all and didn't even when I was into rock music as a teenager. The Who had their good days but Entwhistle was, for me as a developing player, pretty irrelevant. The videos embedded here offer nothing to challenge my view. Another one of the 'greats' who is only great because they played with one of the more popular bands and not because they offered anything particularly interesting. At best, it could be argued that his was a unique voice but, frankly, like Lemmy, that would be because noone else would actually want to play like that. And I can't believe anyone actually [i]wants[/i] to get that tone? But what do I know?

I always take the Wal when I do a double bass gig because I am still not 100% confident in my staminaso this is not a problem for me. I also don't consider myself to be anyone's first call guy so I tend to be put forward by players that know me as an electric player who has recently picked up the big fella.

There is a lovely story where an old big band jazz saxophonist (who I can't name) heard himself on a record in a bar and then heard the record again straight away and then a third time. He approached the guys who were playing it and asked why they kept playing it. 'Because we love the saxopnone solo' He smiled and walked away without telling them....how cool was that?

You have no idea how much I am struggling to even begin to do this. I have always considered myself to be a b-lister. I can do everything I set my mind to to some extent but, although I am thought of as a good player, I always fall short of being one of the best. I get plenty of calls but I am noone's first call guy. I can read but I can't read as well as I would like or should be able to. I write/arrange/record stuff that makes some lay people say 'wow' but, in my opinion, is a bit weak/flawed. I have an audio engineering qualification but my recordings lack any real presence (decent recording equipment would help) and are certainly not at what I would call a professional standard. I have written a book but its not out yet and, whilst it has merit, I will always know that it could have been better had I been able to focus on it more. I have done hundreds, if not thousands, of gigs and have always done a journeyman job, sometimes excelled and often been praised by peers but I know I have gaps in my technique and theory that mean I am not there yet and can fall on my a*** mid gig if the going gets tough. I have played with Jim Mullen, Stan Sultzman, Iain Ballamy, Roy Williams, Hank Shaw, Janusz Carmello, Nick Page and a good few other great jazz musicians; my ambition would be called back to do a second gig with any one of them What's lacking? Time. I have not got the time to do anything well and have to snatch time for any of this activity when I can, the economics of contemporary life being what they are. I know this approach results in consistent mediocrity but I do what I can. But I do hold onto the fact that, in terms of the resources available to me, I have done a lot with my life and continue to do a lot. A few appearances on national TV and radio, appearances at the Brecon Jazz Festival for 9 years running, one appearance at the Vienne Jazz Festival, the ebb and flow of regular gigs throughout the last 30 years etc. I keep plugging away and have my highs, the most recent being a gig with my own band 'Whither Then'? (who have recorded recently; I am waiting for the final mix) so I can't complain. I have learned to be satisfied with quiet victories.

Just re-read Lowdown's post. Its interesting that the rehearsals were so extensive. We had onw rehearsal and then the gigs - sounds like we had no chance!! It goes to show, doesn't it, that the reason the professionals sound good is because they put the hours in, not because they are sprinkled with the magic fairy mojo dust. I have no doubt that we woudl have sounded much better with that kind of preparation.

Frankly, in the absence of anything concrete, I would maintain your own practice routine in order to keep your chops at the best level they can be and make suer your gear is good to go but, after that, relax and take it all as it comes. If they are not expecting you to prepare anything specific, they can't expect you to have anything prepared, can they Don't build this up to be anything other than what it is; a meeting to see if you can play and if they like you. If you are relaxed, you will be as good as you can be and will get the gig or not on that basis.

Two nights in and its coming together nicely. A strange experience as half the band are pros and the other half kids from the school. But the music has come together, despite the 5/8 bars and the occasionally squeaky horn!!

Hal Williner - Weird Nightmare: The Music of Charles Mingus

I just worry sometimes that people (noone in particular) are always looking for shortcuts when the best way of learninig to do something is the tried and teste method of long, drawn out repetition of small details that, over time come together to deliver a level of competence that is of more use that a bag of tricks that are not really that transferable.

Another plug for Neil Tarlton's 'Beginning Scales' and 'The Essentials of Sevcik' (put them into google and you will find them). The second of these is dedicated to bowing and I a finding it really useful. Also, bow wise, I have a French one of these and I love it. [url="http://www.stringemporium.com/carbon-fiber-upright-bass-bows.htm"]stringemporium carbon-fiber bow[/url]

I agree, J. I also think that the nature of the double bass finger board increases the reliance on open strings as a tool and reduces the tendency electric players have of playing set patterns and just moving them up and down a fret to change key. I am finding that the position playing really starts to open up the neck and to reduce the reliance upon licks and learned habits. I think also that there is an element of trust here. Fatback has posted a couple of times questioning 'sacred cows' in the practicing of double bass and, whilst I have no problem with attacks on the status quo, I do feel that this can be a potentially, and I stress potentially, negative approach to utilising a learning method that has a well established record of success. I woudl suggest you work with the established methods and see where they take you. They certainly won't hold you back and may take you to places you would not go otherwise. I would also recommend Neil Tarlton's two books 'Beginning Scales' and 'The Essentials of Sevcik' (Google them) - the second of these is for arco work but I am finding them both to be very useful in breaking down your basic techniques to the essential parts. Not a replacement for Simandl but a valuable supplement.