mcgraham

4 years I think? I had a spate of chopping and changing in the last two (bought one, sold it, bought another, now selling my old workhorse). Things are slowing down now. I just want to get rid of the excess ones I have at present.

Well, I managed to use them in worship this morning with a full band. Took a line out from an existing monitor mix and combined it with my own bass mix to my headphones. They were absolutely fantastic. Could hear absolutely everything and all at minimal volume. I felt like the worship leader/singers were right beside me, and the guitars sounded very crisp and clean. Whilst the drum kit wasn't mic'd (other than kick), the headphones kept the volume to a comfortable level and smoothed out the painful piercing snare hits. Downside is that, due to the excellent noise isolation, I basically had to lip read any verbal instructions when the band was playing, even at a quiet level (although you'll appreciate if the band is actually playing and singing, then they can't/won't be giving verbal instructions off-mic at the same time). In summary, really really impressed, and I will continue to use this in the future. Mark

Incidentally, a guy at work who has custom molded in ears (ACS T2 - costs £500) for personal listening (bit of an audiophile) has said that whilst they sound very good, they don't sound 25 times better than decent 20 quid universal fit in-ear earphones. Of course, sound is so very very subjective, but this is nevertheless an interesting comment from someone who is very picky and not afraid to voice his opinion if he doesn't like something. Due to ongoing issues with their build quality, he's looking to get his money back and get some good universal fits together with some custom molded sleeves. Definitely makes me glad I started down the universal fit route, at least for the time being. Mark

Do let me/us know how you get on with using IEM. I'm definitely sold on at least the personal monitoring side - if I can get it to work with the PA team then even better! Incidentally, I used to sound and light at school and also at previous churches, and I'd love to do PA here, but every church I've been in have found more use for me on bass or guitar. You're right in that we're ultimately there to serve the congregation and worship time by following the worship leader; everything else is peripheral. With regards to the worship team/band and sound team relationship, I find that it is (objectively speaking) an interesting dynamic: the musicians are there to play, the PA team are there to sort the sound of the team - without the musicians the PA guys have nothing to do, without the PA team the musicians will not be able to play. As such, you just need to do your job and trust your PA team to do theirs. Its just unfortunate that the PA team at present is quite unco-operative to do things out of the norm. Mark

Bottle, thanks for sharing, always interesting to hear how other worship bassists deal with such things I was considering closed back headphones as your money goes further sound quality wise for headphones rather than earbuds. However I love earbuds and prefer the discrete look. I may buy a set anyway for personal listening but that's another matter. Unfortunately, the sound team skill level is quite inexperienced and, for a number of reasons, they are generally unwilling to try new things. As such, all the stuff I've been trying I've been having to do totally by myself, but I've primarily been doing to address the PA team's complaints about bass amplification/monitoring. Yes, this is frustrating for me, but I'm hoping we can start to try new stuff soon. Mark

I was looking at the Sennheiser IE6-8 range, but I ruled them out (for now) due to size, price, my general inexperience, and a few reviews that said they were better for personal listening than personal monitoring. The q-Jays are universal silicone ear tip type, and they fit wonderfully. Mark

Thanks for sharing your experience. I'm bassing this Sunday so will be trying out my in-ears properly. Going to try and get in touch with the PA team in advance to secure a spare desk monitor feed for myself. For those who're interested I purchased the Jays q-Jays - tiny dual balanced armature driver headphones. Amazingly clear and shows how normal headphones mask a good deal of the midrange to achieve a more 'pleasing' contemporary sound. I'm still testing out the in-ears, but so far they have impressed me. Mark

I played bass for a large gospel choir for a few years. Really got my ear and chops in shape. Re: detuning - don't bother. I don't want to use the word 'cheating', but there's no easy 'fix' to odd keys, you just gotta get used to it. You'll be a better musician for it. Re: tips... 1. Think about the groove - if you're joining an established choir/band, listen for a few minutes to what the rest of the musicians and the singers are doing with the song, and 'feel' what they're doing with it. You'll obviously put your own spin on it to some extent (inevitable) but bands in choirs are there to support the choir and the feel of the song. There may be odd pushes, unusual rhythms, but try to find the underlying groove and stick with it regardless of note choice. 2. Note choices: harmony/chords, modes, chromatics - Gospel has evolved over the years and taken in elements from other genres so I can't give really specific advice on this without hearing the choir in question. My general suggestion is try to improve your understanding of harmony beyond standard triads, try to appreciate the sound of extensions/tensions and four note chords of all types (guitar helps). It's more important to 'get' this from an aural perspective rather than a purely intellectual perspective, i.e. to know a particular chord evokes a certain sound ('ah-hah, i recognise that chord cos it has that <<insert adjective here>> sound, i Know what to play over that'). Try to work out the key note(s) in particular chords that contribute/are responsible for the feel of a given song at a given point. Once you have a strong appreciation of harmony (as it relates to gospel), try also to apply modes and chromatics to see how you can use them to complement the changes in gospel. It sounds like a lot, but start small and work your way up. 3. Taste - As with all bands, music is as much about what you don't play as what you do play. A lot of contemporary gospel music (backing the choir) uses a lot of rests, space, and alternating interplay between instruments and the choir to give the music a much more dynamic ebb and flow than constant intensity at the same level. This is totally up to you, but don't be afraid to leave space and be authoritative and tasteful with the notes you do play. Hope this helps, feel free to ask/PM if anything is unclear or you have any more questions. Mark

Probably is for the best. I can always tip-ex small markers on later .... am I joking?... who knows ... 29 November? Wouldn't surprise me, they seem to turn things around very quickly. Although saying that, I've found that they get to 95% done very quickly, but they seem to take longer on the last 5% than the rest of it. My last one it took weeks to build the thing, and months to fit the pickups. Mark

Due to the cluttering that would occur in the 3rd octave with so many dots, we've decided just to use a standard dot layout all the way up to the 36th position. Shame, but there we go! Mark

Thanks bud! It's going to be a great bass Enrico and I have been discussing the side dot scheme recently. I wanted to have a standard dot layout on the side of the neck, plus smaller more discrete dots at all of the remaining positions. The idea is to ensure that all 'fret' positions are marked out, but that a standard dot layout allows for easy navigation across the board. We've been having a bit of difficulty agreeing on the scheme and finding the right dot size without it getting cluttered up in the third octave, but if it doesn't look feasible or suitable we'll just go for the standard dot layout. Also looks like we may be going for a bubinga back as well; for functional and aesthetic reasons. Mark

Well, used my good 'phones again yesterday. I was still enthralled by being able to hear myself so clearly, but I was quite disgusted with the poor sound. So new higher SQ in-ear monitors are on order to improve the situation.

Turns out that the neck was glued on Wednesday! Crazy progress... Might even be ready before Christmas! No pics yet I'm afraid, I have asked though. Mark

Well, i'm playing (acoustic) guitar tomorrow at church, so I'll try the monitoring solution with actual canal-phones (20 quid Sony jobs) rather than earbuds, and a monitor mix coming through to combat the ambience issue. I'll report back after that. When playing in a worship team, an overall mix of the band and ambience is vital. Worship sets are not 'jam' sessions by any means, but there is a lot more spur-of-the-moment variation and changes depending on where the leader feels things are going - very dynamic, but it means you need to be able to hear what's going on clearly and adjust your playing accordingly and with taste. Mark

I think your personal monitor pack would allow you to have control over the final volume in your ears. I certainly have control over the headphone level using the mixing desk solution.

[quote]If I used in-ears I'd want to have a full mix of the whole band[/quote] I used a set of B&O earbuds (with the metal ear frame) as this allowed the band's sound in and allowed for ambient noise of the congregation in as well. We communicate a lot on stage so this is vital. I do have some average in-ear canal earphones, but these don't filter frequencies evenly and would impede understanding the rest of the team/band. There is a spare monitor channel so we will try giving me my own monitor feed one Sunday. I'm playing guitar this week so may not do it then (also short on time) but it would be interesting to try with earbuds and an actual monitor mix

[quote]This is where it all goes wrong for me on most gigs!![/quote] Tell me about it... I've basically given up fighting or even discussing things with them. At the end of the day, they control the front of house mix, not us, so I may as well ensure that any issues that arise are squarely on their shoulders rather than mine, and make sure they have nothing on me that they can say was my fault.

I've only auditioned twice in the last year or so in Nottingham. First one was just a chat, with the intent of a practice later. Guys seemed sound, if a little rough... I said 'I can make more or less any day after 5pm provided you give me sufficient notice, just don't tell me on the day or the day before'. I then received two or three texts in the following weeks attempting to arrange a practice for... the day they texted or the day after. Useless. Second one I actually had two auditions (which I travelled to Mansfield for), one to play at, then another for backing vocals. They particularly liked my vocals, and we all got on really well. I even shared my woes from the last audition, and they all agreed it wasn't cool to not get back to someone who'd made the effort to turn up for an audition... it's now about 8 months later and I've heard nothing more. Infuriating... And yes, it is Nottingham musicians who are crap. Mark

[quote]depends on the size of the gig[/quote] Mmm! Indeed! There's certainly pros and cons to this option, but at present, all I can think about was how clearly I could hear myself. Re: extra 'feeling': On Sunday it was excellent as I got most of the mids and top end from the headphones (ear bud style - on purpose for ambience) and the PA provided some 'feeling' and low end. It was great.

Sod's law that would be the case I too dislike not knowing what's coming through the mix, however you have to trust your sound man - that's their responsibility. I will admit I don't fully trust the mixing skills of some of the PA team at my church, but honestly, as long as I can hear both myself and the band clearly then I'm happy If the feedback on the mix/sound is poor then that's the PA team's fault, not mine. Mark

On Sunday, I played through a makeshift equivalent of in ears [i]sans [/i]rig: bass-->small mixing desk|-->headphones |-->aux out to DI/PA desk I've [i][b][u]never [/u][/b][/i]heard myself so clearly. Also, the PA guys got a good signal (which I could mute if I wanted to practice silently), and there was no fighting over the volume of my rig. This revelation has left me reconsidering the in-ear monitoring option, and wondering whether I should sell my rig in light of this. I'm basically stumped on this issue, and would appreciate any input/experiences/comments that others more experienced than I could contribute to this. Mark

Plus the one MacDaddy! Mark