Best place to study jazz bass in the UK?

[Alun]

I know people who've gone through Leeds, Birmingham and the Welsh College and all have come out knowing plenty. The only experience I've had of LCCM was an open day last year ( when Gary Willis played there) and, to be honest, thought the masterclasses by the college's tutors were appalling. Some great playing but several seemed unable to answer even basic queries from people attending. I would not have been happy if I'd paid to be in London and study there only to be met with less bass knowledge than you'd find on the average forum.

Cheers,
Alun

[rootn5th]

What about Salford University in Manchester? The bass teacher is Ollie Collins ive heard he's a great instructor and Manchester has some decent places to play...........

[SisterAbdullahX]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='97991' date='Dec 3 2007, 10:50 AM']I love the idea of going to college to study jazz on electric bass. I would have loved to do it twenty years ago and I would love to do it now. All that playing, practising and studying all day every day. Brilliant!

Only I can't help but notice that some of the people I have taught/played with who have gone on to do this (Royal College/Leeds etc) are now gigging on the same scenes as me, playing the same venues for the same money and doing no more gigs than I am.

Not sure what the point of it all was? Not sure what point I am making. Not sure whether this thing half way up my arm is my a**e or my elbow.[/quote]
Yeah, and the thing about these establishments that hasn't been discussed so far is the fact that actual bass study will only take up something like 15-20% of the syllabus. I did 2 years of a 3 year degree course at Newcastle College back in the 90's, and at that point Newcastle had a bit of a name for itself for producing talent, but we had to study jazz history, and lets face it, if you need to study that you don't deserve to be there, and even worse, bloody calligraphy! Arghhh!! This is because, despite the fact they call them "Jazz" Degrees, what they actually try to do is try to cover as many bases (no pun intended) as possible in order to make you as employable as possible after graduation . In other words, you might be thinking you're going in there specifically to study jazz bass, but while you're there they want you to consider the possibilty you might not work out to be the next Matthew Garrison and look to a career in teaching, or function bands or cruise ships whatever (not to say there is anything wrong with any of those), but just don't expect it to be 100% hands on improvisational and supportive study. Tie this in with the rediculous expense (£20,000 or so all in) and it all starts to look like not such a great proposition after all. Of course, there is the possibility that the course at Newcastle College was crap.....

[bnt]

There's a Berklee-affiliated school in the Dublin area, the [url="http://www.newparkmusic.com/"]Newpark Music Centre[/url] in Blackrock. I haven't been there myself, but I thought I should mention it in case the Berklee connections are helpful - it's one of 15 [url="http://www.berklee.edu/international/berkleeintlnetwork.html"]Berklee International Network[/url] schools worldwide that uses their teaching materials.

[dexter3d]

Thank you all for the valuable info! Has anybody graduated from Leeds? I cannot get feedback,
tried to ask for some alumni emails, but it turns out that giving emails is contrary to the data protection act :/

[The Funk]

My drummer's at [url="http://www.tcm.ac.uk/RVE26dae6fc87f24277a0e4c150e6708b3c,,.aspx"]Trinity[/url] in London. He reckons it's pretty good.

[Johnzy]

if you are really set on going on to uni go for guild hall or trinity. royal college dont except electric bass, and have more of a classical sense of learning.
I've come through a trinity course and would say that the association with other musicians was the thing that pushed me forward. getting introduced to new artist and styles from new friends is great, and it really help me to develop as a player and my knowledge of music.
i would agree that 90% of music is self taught, and going to these universities will only benefit you if YOU want to learn what THEY TEACH.
I made the choice not to go in to massive debt, and to search out some brilliant one to one tutors.
mike mondesir, stuart clayton, Randy Hope-Taylor, Steve lawson and Stevie Lewinson have all given me one to one lessons, and i've moved on with them and their own opinions than one department of one uni!
hope this is a help!
both routes will help you get there, but its you who's got to work at it.
jaco never went to uni to study jazz, nor did miles (he dropped out of a classical course). you can make it whatever!!!!

[dexter3d]

After some thinking now I decided to apply to Leeds College of Music (Zoltan Dekany)
as well as Amsterdam Conservatory (David de Marez Oryens, but possibly
Charly Angenois, Jan Hollestelle, Theo de Jong, or Lené te Voortwis), both normal BA programmes.
Zoltan Dekany is very brilliant and supportive teacher. I also met Marez Oryenz.
Does anybody happen to know the other teachers in Amsterdam? In general,
any suggestions in Leeds vs Amsterdam?

[funkle]

Hi all.

I've been following this thread a while, as I have been wondering the same things as the original poster; however I have had more in the way of time constraints to consider.

My answer was not to study in the UK at all, but to go to the Players School Of Music in Florida and study with Jeff Berlin.

For a fuller review, search my threads. I posted a really long one after I finished up a 1-month course there last year.

I'm intending to go back either Oct or Jan next year for 3 months.

Cost including flights/accom/tuiton/car hire/etc for 1 month was about £1700. I lived real tight for a while.
Cost for 3 months is going to be around £3000.

I think it's great value for money though. 6 months later I'm still improving and practicising daily.

Pete

[MissPenguin]

[quote]Hi all.

I've been following this thread a while, as I have been wondering the same things as the original poster; however I have had more in the way of time constraints to consider.

My answer was not to study in the UK at all, but to go to the Players School Of Music in Florida and study with Jeff Berlin.

For a fuller review, search my threads. I posted a really long one after I finished up a 1-month course there last year.

I'm intending to go back either Oct or Jan next year for 3 months.

Cost including flights/accom/tuiton/car hire/etc for 1 month was about £1700. I lived real tight for a while.
Cost for 3 months is going to be around £3000.

I think it's great value for money though. 6 months later I'm still improving and practicising daily.

Pete[/quote]

That sounds truely amazing.
I'm looking at universities at the moment.. It's all horribly confusing.
I hope to take my Grade 8 next year, so i don't think that'll be to much of a problem.
I just need to concentrate really hard on achieving my music A level..

[matty589]

Your record collection.
Spend £2000 on a year at music college or £2000 on 400+ classic jazz CD's and learn them inside out?
Whilst you're studying those records, go play with any jazz musicians you can find. LISTEN!!! Learn from your mistakes. (I did!)
Learn to play the piano, even just to be able to play the changes to a tune.
If you need a book, try the Jazz Theory Book.
If you need to know how to walk, try Ed Friedland's Building Walking Bass Lines and Expanding Walking Bass Lines.
Play at least a little upright bass. It's harder to play so every note counts.
Transcribe the melody, bass part, chords and solos of as many tunes as you can.
If you work very hard and have a reasonable amount of talent you will get very good.
I can't think of many jazz musicians, past or present, that became the players that they are because of music college.
Education can produce geniuses but it generally produces a lot of people of average competence.
There is no "set" way to play jazz so music college will more likely stunt your growth rather than inspire it.
Music colleges are a substitute for lack of available gigs. You end up being a photocopy of a photocopy.
Music comes from within so maybe look there first...

[The Funk]

[quote name='matty589' post='185640' date='Apr 25 2008, 11:12 PM']There is no "set" way to play jazz so music college will more likely stunt your growth rather than inspire it.[/quote]

I'd swap the words 'could' for "will", 'just as' for "more" and 'as' for "rather than", ie.

'There is no "set" way to play jazz so music college could just as likely stunt your growth as inspire it.'

All I know is the good players never seem to have that problem.

Another benefit that could come from studying jazz at university is that professional work seems to find its way there.

I'm not a schooled musician but I know it works for some.

Edited April 25, 2008 by The Funk

[Mikey D]

[quote name='matty589' post='185640' date='Apr 25 2008, 11:12 PM']You end up being a photocopy of a photocopy.[/quote]

Only if you let it, and unfortunately, maybe people do.

[matty589]

Certainly the networking aspect of a well-respected institution is a good reason to study. If you have little or no gigging experience then a University can give you a cushion and ease you into experiencing playing with other musicians. It also helps to immerse yourself in music. It goes back to my earlier point that music colleges exist because of a lack of available gigs. I went to the Bass Institute to study a (supposedly) "advanced" 2-year course 13 years ago as a reasonably accomplished player, able to read, played in a variety of bands and styles and done a few recording sessions. The standard of the other musicians was appalling - very few could even tap a basic rhythm or play in any other style than rock widdle (sloppily and out of time, too). There was an entrance exam where one had to sight-read a piece and play arpeggios built on the harmonic minor as well as sending a recording of two pieces of music (1 including a solo) in prior to the audition. So how the hell did all these beginners get on the course? When year two came around and songs like "Contusion", "YYZ" and "The Necessary Blonde" were on the agenda they might as well have given up. No-one could even attempt to play them! Odd time signatures. Rhythmic displacement. Jazz soloing. Forget it. Is this because they were talentless no-hopers? I don't think so. They just needed to listen to a wider range of music, use a metronome to develop better time and improve the efficiency of their technique to be able to play cleaner and more musically, and go out and gig. The tutors may well have been respected players but most of them couldn't teach for toffee (some of the were just plain obnoxious). Now, of course other courses may well have been nothing like this - I did a good 1-year jazz course in Chichester with Bobby Wellins (even though he hated electric bass and anything other than jazz!) - but to be honest, if you really want to learn to play, records can tell you 95% of all you need to know about music. I might also point out that due to the massive reduction in live music over the last 30 years, a lot of teachers at music colleges are now students that stayed on, or have a name because they write a magazine article or have played a gig or two. You are going to learn from them - what will that make you?