Jeff Berlin's new CD

[risingson]

[quote name='steve-soar' post='967190' date='Sep 24 2010, 10:08 PM']God, that is f***ng awful. Measured, tight with technique slop.[/quote]

I'm afraid I agree. Sounds like the sort of music they'll be playing during the apocalypse.

[risingson]

Just my opinion however! Sorry forgot to mention just in case the OP takes any offense.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Doddy' post='967174' date='Sep 24 2010, 09:36 PM']Not really,because the things that you liked about it are still good whether they are standards or originals.[/quote]
But I tend to rate musicians on their compositional skills over their monster chops, I don't get excited by monster chops anymore, I've grown up a bit. I want to hear MUSIC. But since these are Jazz Standards, all I can rate Jeff on is his monster chops. Some of his note choices and runs are nice but most of it seems to be athletics with very little thought for the intent of the composition. It's a very unemotional album, and it seems Jeff just wanted to demonstrate a new approach to improvisation and technical application on the instrument. I listened to the whole album today and found it very dull for the most part. Any initial exuberance for it has worn off at a second listen. I do like the last track though, there is some interesting stuff going on in there with crossed timing.

Aside from those few nice bits, it's very samey, I got the point after one song, to be honest. The rest of it is the same approach with different notes. It doesn't give me pictures, it doesn't speak. There is so little space in it, it's breathless. All I see when I listen to this music is Jeff Berlin playing the bass, and all he is saying is "Listen to this! I can play bass in a fast and complicated way because I have studied theory and technique for many, many years." There is no passion, the music is reduced to a mere challenge to the musician and the listener.

Edited September 25, 2010 by silddx

[Chris2112]

One thing I recall that was particularly prevalent at TB was people criticising Jeff for whatever reason and those who had met him or studied with him all loved him! However, the same naysayers couldn't fall over themselves fast enough to kiss his arse when he had Q&A threads. Whenever he wasn't there taking questions I'd be forever fighting his corner, along the lines of "when you're that good, you can do what you like". When I listen to Jeff I think that, quite frankly I'll never be able to play like that!

[xilddx]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='967768' date='Sep 25 2010, 04:28 PM']One thing I recall that was particularly prevalent at TB was people criticising Jeff for whatever reason and those who had met him or studied with him all loved him! However, the same naysayers couldn't fall over themselves fast enough to kiss his arse when he had Q&A threads. Whenever he wasn't there taking questions I'd be forever fighting his corner, along the lines of "when you're that good, you can do what you like". When I listen to Jeff I think that, quite frankly I'll never be able to play like that![/quote]
But nothing you have said there has anything to do with music, it is about people who love Jeff Berlin and people who don't.

We all have a million things we can learn from Jeff Berlin, I doubt many of us would deny that, but god help us if all it teaches us is to play like him. Which is why I wonder why you said [i]"When I listen to Jeff I think that, quite frankly I'll never be able to play like that!"[/i] As a statement of fact you could say that about any highly skilled bassist. But there is much more to your statement, what is it? What do you mean? Most musicians with ability and enough motivation and time could, if they practised hard and long and intelligently enough, mechanically operate a bass in the way Jeff Berlin does. BUT, and its a big BUT, what would you choose to do with that level of facility and knowledge? The problem as I see it is that he is not a composer and doesn't really know what to do with his gift other than play fast over other people's Jazz music, and teach other people how to.

[zero9]

I won't be buying his new CD, even though I was impressed with some of his earlier stuff. For me his genre of music (Jazz?) has become inaccessible. I have got to a stage where I prefer something more 'musical' which goes somewhere. I feel he's creating his own genre of Jazz which certainly is beyond mere mortals like me.

[Chris2112]

[quote name='silddx' post='967814' date='Sep 25 2010, 05:21 PM']The problem as I see it is that he is not a composer and doesn't really know what to do with his gift other than play fast over other people's Jazz music, and teach other people how to.[/quote]

If I have just one observation it is that Jeff seemed to have a lot more to say musically when he was doing his old skool fusion stuff. However, that was over 20 years ago. He's been playing so long though that perhaps he has just got a different perspective to the situation as compared to me. But then, I'm not a huge jazz fan. I love fusion; I love how it's bombastic, electric and occasionally uses catchy melodies as a bass to solo over. Some jazz progressions just sound flat to me and don't really catch my ear, so even someone as good as Jeff blowing over changes wouldn't really interest me. It's much the same though, that I'd rather listen to the 8-Bit sound "Kind of Bloop" recordings that the original "Kind of Blue" etc etc.

[blamelouis]

I loved "Pump it" and got a few recordings last year of Jeff playing with John McLaughlin in a trio which was great ....BUT his solo albums of recent years i dont like and i used to LOVE his playing.

I'd rather listen to this these days ...

[Chris2112]

Where can these recordings with McLaughin be heard?

[Spoombung]

[quote name='blamelouis' post='969650' date='Sep 27 2010, 04:39 PM'][/quote]

Agh, my ears!!!

[ShergoldSnickers]

[quote name='Spoombung' post='969775' date='Sep 27 2010, 05:55 PM']Agh, my ears!!![/quote]
Just goes to show – I could listen to this for hours, certainly as an alternative to Mr Berlin.

Weber's playing is generally restrained, melodic, and thoughtful and it doesn't sound like someone who wants to dazzle with technicalities. I fully accept that to others it will sound just terrible, but that's why we keep having these interesting discussions, because thankfully we are not all the same.

[Marvin]

[quote name='ShergoldSnickers' post='969823' date='Sep 27 2010, 06:18 PM']........ because thankfully we are not all the same.[/quote]

I'm the same!

[ShergoldSnickers]

[quote name='Marvin' post='969827' date='Sep 27 2010, 06:23 PM']I'm the same! [/quote]
Ha ha!

Due to a childhood incident with a pair of underpants, some 30lb fishing line and a set of dumbbells I'm especially not the same.

[steve-soar]

[quote name='Spoombung' post='969775' date='Sep 27 2010, 05:55 PM']Agh, my ears!!![/quote]Sounds like the theme to All Creatures Great And Small, on mushrooms.

[Spoombung]

Some interesting melodic decisions in Jeff Berlin's playing - plenty to admire - but I grimace when I hear it through that wretched chorus pedal.

[blamelouis]

[quote name='ShergoldSnickers' post='969823' date='Sep 27 2010, 05:18 PM']Just goes to show – I could listen to this for hours, certainly as an alternative to Mr Berlin.

Weber's playing is generally restrained, melodic, and thoughtful and it doesn't sound like someone who wants to dazzle with technicalities. I fully accept that to others it will sound just terrible, but that's why we keep having these interesting discussions, because thankfully we are not all the same.[/quote]
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