Instructional book on transcribing?

[Faithless]

So, I'm about to dig into transcribing music (into notation), and, hmmm, not to forget, I'm quite familiar with notation/reading lines, and I've already started transcribing music, but..

But I just wanted to ask, if there's any [b]structured [/b]material, that teaches, how to properly do it, I mean, how to listen to it and[i] write it on[/i]?.. if you know what I'm sayin'..



Faith

[Faithless]

And, anyway, if don't know any, maybe any of you, transcribers, could share, how did you actually [i]started [/i]transcribing?

[TKenrick]

Hearing and Writing Music is a great book that I've been working from for a while now. It's a very clear and structured approach to ear training and transcription:

[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hearing-Writing-Music-Professional-Training/dp/0962949671/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1258912429&sr=8-1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Hearing-Writing-Mu...2429&sr=8-1[/url]

As far as advice on transcription goes, here's my two cents:

1. Start out with something simple (I think the first tune I ever wrote down was a stereophonics song)
2. Regardless of what you're transcribing, work with short sections (1 or 2 bars at a time)
3. Make sure you can accurately sing back the line you're trying to write down and recognise the intervals rather than using your bass and 'hunting' for the right notes
4. Notation software is a massive help when it comes to putting the dots onto a page. This doesn't mean you have to spend lots of money on Sibelius, IIRC there's a trial version of Finale that's free to download. If you have a MIDI keyboard this will also help to speed up the process of inputting notes.
5. Take regular breaks to prevent your ears/brain getting fatigued and making silly mistakes
6. Don't just transcribe bass players.
7. If your ears/voice can't catch a fast lick then windows media player/quicktime both enable you to slow things down without changing the pitch
8. A decent set of headphones can help things considerably, particularly when working on bass lines.

I can't emphasise just how important no.3 is - I find that singing is the key to improving my transcription skills.

Of course, all of this is just my opinion based on personal experience. I'm fairly sure there's something on Lucas Pickford's site with some advice on transcription, and he's probably much more informative than I am.

hope this helps,

Tom

[Faithless]

That was nice, Tom, thanks for that

[endorka]

[quote name='TKenrick' post='661991' date='Nov 22 2009, 06:18 PM']8. A decent set of headphones can help things considerably, particularly when working on bass lines.[/quote]

All good advice, and another thing the headphones are good for is substantially reducing the amount of computer fan/hum noise that reaches your ears if you are transcribing from a computer. Computers can be surprisingly noisy, but we think we get used to it, but it still makes transcibing more difficult. Must lower the signal/noise ratio I expect.

Jennifer

[Bilbo]

I use 'Transcribe' software from seventhstring.com. It slows stuff down up to quarter speed without changing the pitch and has some other features that work for me (like isolating and looping passages etc). Its available as a download for about £40.

Tom's advice is sound. I would add that you need to make sure that, if you are transcribing the bass parts or solos off recordings, you also need to make sure that you have the chords available or can transcribe them also. This is as important as catching the lines you are transcribing as, without the context, the learning is limited to playing by rote, a pretty useless skill in improvising/writing your own lines. If you don't know the chords, or aren;t sure, post them here. Someone will tell you where you are going wrong (Major-Minor is great at that).

As Tom said, start small and work upwards. Sometimes it is important to catch every detail but sometimes this is less important and catching the core riffs/patterns is enough. Trying to work out every single lick in a 12 minute Dave Holland tune is probably not worth the time spent (arguable, I guess). I woudl also recommend you place due emphasis on READING the charts you write as well as writing them. I have doen loads of complicated transcriptions that I can't play. The learning is limited there also. A Joe Lovano solo where he is playing 11 over 8 at 320 bpm is unlikley to be of much use to you! Sometimes transcribing a two bar sequence is more useful to you that a six chorus Coltrane solo.

Good luck and don't forget to post some of your efforts here!

[Major-Minor]

I've done a huge amount of transcribing in my time. For 17 years i ran a 6 -12 piece function band, all reading, and as we played loads of current pop stuff of the time plus old Motown / Soul / 60's etc etc, I had to transcribe from the records / tapes / CD's and re-arrange for my players (did over 400 titles). I've also done many full orchestrations for the 90 piece BBC orch I play in, again transcribing chart hits from CD and re-arranging.

The best piece of advice I can give is to start with the bass part. Once you've got that down on paper, everything else makes more sense. Then jot down the chord sequence as you hear it, even if only roughly. Again that can help when you get stuck into the nitty-gritty of what is going on. When working on drum parts, just note the basic groove to begin with, write "fill" as required.Most drummers only want a broad outline of the song, showing where to do fills or dynamic changes, where the stops are (if any).

If you are trying to write down improvised solos, start by getting down the notes that hit the main beats. Then you can fill in the other notes from there.

One thing that always amazed me when transcribing some of the old numbers from the days when everything was real playing (ie before computers) was how many wrong notes and bad timing you could spot.

It's a great way to train your ears, so get transcribing !

The Major

[XB26354]

One other obvious point is to get the full benefit of transcribing you need to [b]learn to play off by heart [/b]what you have transcribed.

[Bilbo]

I agree with that. If you can't play what you have transcribed, you haven't really achieved much other than copied down a series of noises in order of pitch!

[Major-Minor]

[quote name='XB26354' post='663731' date='Nov 24 2009, 01:52 PM']One other obvious point is to get the full benefit of transcribing you need to [b]learn to play off by heart [/b]what you have transcribed.[/quote]
While I agree entirely that the ability to commit music to memory is essential for all musicians, really that is something different from transcribing. The clue is in the word - tranSCRIBEing - ie to write down what you hear. And that is an art in itself.
And Bilbo - believe me it IS a great achievement to successfully transcribe a piece of music, regardless of how complex or simple it is, or whether you can't physically play it yourself. If you are trying to copy a virtuoso player's solos, then at least you know what you have to work on, even if you might not finally achieve that level of playing. After all, having something to aim for is what drives every player to work on their technique and their musical understanding.

If you want to commit to memory what another player has already put down on record, then I would suggest putting away your manuscript and pencil, and copy it directly into your brain and into your fingers. It helps to "see" the written notes in your head, but its great training for your muscle memory and musical memory if you take it straight from the audio into your head. Then you can copy their every inflection plus all the things that are so difficult to write down.

The Major

[Major-Minor]

While we are on the subject of transcribing, I thought i should mention this:

The most impressive transcribing I have come across is the work of British musician Philip Laine.

The BBC orch I play with makes about 10 CD's a year. The biggest sellers are a series we have done (and continue adding to) of recreations of the soundtrack music from British films of the 40's and 50's. The quality of recording technology in those days was rather poor, and film buffs like to hear how that music might sound when recorded in stereo on high end digital machines.
The problem is that the scores and parts for that old film music has mostly been destroyed - when the BBC took over Pinewood Studios someone apparently thought it was a pile of old rubbish and burnt it !

So Philip Laine was given the job of sitting down with the original soundtracks and literally transcribing every note the orchestra played. Obviously he had to use his considerable musical knowledge to work out what everybody was playing, even when the recording quality was hampering his perception. He had to make educated guesses in some cases but the final result was always convincing.

The Major

[XB26354]

[quote name='Major-Minor' post='664083' date='Nov 24 2009, 05:53 PM']While I agree entirely that the ability to commit music to memory is essential for all musicians, really that is something different from transcribing. The clue is in the word - tranSCRIBEing - ie to write down what you hear. And that is an art in itself.
And Bilbo - believe me it IS a great achievement to successfully transcribe a piece of music, regardless of how complex or simple it is, or whether you can't physically play it yourself. If you are trying to copy a virtuoso player's solos, then at least you know what you have to work on, even if you might not finally achieve that level of playing. After all, having something to aim for is what drives every player to work on their technique and their musical understanding.

If you want to commit to memory what another player has already put down on record, then I would suggest putting away your manuscript and pencil, and copy it directly into your brain and into your fingers. It helps to "see" the written notes in your head, but its great training for your muscle memory and musical memory if you take it straight from the audio into your head. Then you can copy their every inflection plus all the things that are so difficult to write down.

The Major[/quote]

Whilst I'd agree with you in theory, in reality I never had the luxury of time to learn things one way then the other. I could read, but after my early wake up call (see above re the jazz gig) I had to transcribe and learn in quick succession (for some reason I didn't know about fake books or real books so took songs straight from the record with much stabbing of a cheap keyboard!). I don't believe that just transcribing something is the point when you are learning to do it. Transcribing entire sections of an orchestra is an advanced skill that comes much later. As an instrumentalist and someone [i]learning[/i] how to transcribe I feel there is more benefit to getting the notes under your fingers as you go (and the chords!).

[Mikey D]

There is a good summary of the transcription process here: [url="http://www.daveliebman.com/Feature_Articles/index.htm"]Dave Liebman is one bad mutha[/url]

I personally use this way as when I transcribe something it is because I like what they are doing and I want to be able to do what I'm listening to. So it takes you through what to do with the transcription once you have it down and want to get aspects of it into your own playing.

There are a few other good educational articles on his site also.

[Major-Minor]

[quote name='XB26354' post='664508' date='Nov 24 2009, 11:12 PM']Whilst I'd agree with you in theory, in reality I never had the luxury of time to learn things one way then the other. I could read, but after my early wake up call (see above re the jazz gig) I had to transcribe and learn in quick succession (for some reason I didn't know about fake books or real books so took songs straight from the record with much stabbing of a cheap keyboard!). I don't believe that just transcribing something is the point when you are learning to do it. Transcribing entire sections of an orchestra is an advanced skill that comes much later. As an instrumentalist and someone [i]learning[/i] how to transcribe I feel there is more benefit to getting the notes under your fingers as you go (and the chords!).[/quote]
My point here is really this:

Every musician, but particularly the improvising musician, needs to have good aural skills, to be able to identify the notes going on around you, so you can react accordingly and work together with the other musicians as a team. Transcribing notes on to manuscript is is good starting point to develop those skills.

When I was at music college (dare i say some 40 years ago ? !), we had Aural classes where the tutor would play a few bars on the piano and, having told us the starting note, we would have to accurately write down the notes as played (we had no instruments in our hands). So a good aural perception for intervals and rhythm was developed. He would also play chords for identification. This is, and always has been, standard training for musicians.

While you are in the early stages of your musical development, it is certainly advantageous to have your instrument handy to check the notes you are writing down, and as I said before, copying bass parts from CD and learning to play them from memory is all part of that development process.

The very act of transcribing (whether to manuscript or memory) is all about true listening. We all have limitations in our aural perception. My skills are OK (ish) but I know i have some areas that need improvement. I know musicians who can hear 3 part counterpoint, memorize it, and write it down accurately. I struggle with that level of competence. But I believe my skills have got better as I get older. I always envied musos with perfect pitch (the ability to know what a note is without reference to an instrument), but I'm now finding I can quite often (but unfortunately not always) guess the key of a piece correctly. This has come from years and years of playing vast amounts of music.

So transcribing / copying / memorizing etc is all part of the musical learning and aural development process. Keep at it !


The Major

[Bilbo]

[quote name='Major-Minor' post='664083' date='Nov 24 2009, 05:53 PM']And Bilbo - believe me it IS a great achievement to successfully transcribe a piece of music, regardless of how complex or simple it is, or whether you can't physically play it yourself. If you are trying to copy a virtuoso player's solos, then at least you know what you have to work on, even if you might not finally achieve that level of playing. After all, having something to aim for is what drives every player to work on their technique and their musical understanding.

If you want to commit to memory what another player has already put down on record, then I would suggest putting away your manuscript and pencil, and copy it directly into your brain and into your fingers. It helps to "see" the written notes in your head, but its great training for your muscle memory and musical memory if you take it straight from the audio into your head. Then you can copy their every inflection plus all the things that are so difficult to write down.[/quote]

Fair point. I guess its about deciding why you are doing it in the first place and making sure you get out of it what you are looking for. For me, learning TO PLAY transcriptions by Parker etc was the way I learned be-bop phrasing etc. The mathematical relationships between the notes were one thing but the spirit of the music was another. That was harder to write down and was primarily an aural experiece.

[Stuart Clayton]

[quote name='Mikey D' post='664554' date='Nov 24 2009, 11:54 PM']There is a good summary of the transcription process here: [url="http://www.daveliebman.com/Feature_Articles/index.htm"]Dave Liebman is one bad mutha[/url]

I personally use this way as when I transcribe something it is because I like what they are doing and I want to be able to do what I'm listening to. So it takes you through what to do with the transcription once you have it down and want to get aspects of it into your own playing.

There are a few other good educational articles on his site also.[/quote]

Just read the article the Mikey has recommended and it's fantastic. Thanks for the link Mikey!

Stu