Need a bass for F0 tuning

[umph]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='645122' date='Nov 4 2009, 12:07 PM']A good octave pedal that makes a solid octave down from the F would cost you more than a custom set of strings and a file. I spend enough time fiddling with them.

The problem is the amplification.[/quote]
also the ones with the good tracking like micropogs etc have a high pass filter on them to stop you blowing your cabs.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='umph' post='645139' date='Nov 4 2009, 12:31 PM']also the ones with the good tracking like micropogs etc have a high pass filter on them to stop you blowing your cabs.[/quote]

And not blowing cabs is for pansies.

[alexclaber]

Dingwall! Or get Robbie at RIM Custom Basses to make you a bass like my 36" scale one. Or go even longer like a Knuckle: [url="http://www.knuckleguitarworks.com/instruments/quake.html"]http://www.knuckleguitarworks.com/instruments/quake.html[/url]

Alex

[51m0n]

Dont be daft.

If you want a fundamental that low, the only instrument other than a synth thats going to do it is a really big pipe organ. And they arent portable, or at all rock 'n roll:-



No way will any standard bass kit produce anything that low.

If you feel you have to try and do this find yourself a Crown DC300 lab amp (good luck with the search, I had one of these driving two HH 15s for years, really nice amp for sub!). Its called a DC cos it will push DC (they even used them to power hammonds when touring on the wrong side of the pond, and banks of them to drive electro magnets to flex boeing wings to destruction back in the day).

No 'normal' PA amp is going to go that low, they all filter out frequencies below about 30Hz cos its practically wasted energy.

No speaker cab or driver you can buy will produce these frequencies loud enough to hear compared to the harmonics (assuming you could actually hear them - more in a mo on this). Why would they??

The human ear just doesnt pick up any sound below 20Hz, I dont care what you say, I dont care what you try and tell everyone, that is a measurable provable scientific and medical fact based upon the physical dimensions and construction of the ear itself, which is the sensory organ in question.

The human ear/brain is incredibly clever at synthesising and processing the sound it picks up. In doing so it may give the impression that you are 'hearing' things you physically cant. The fact that you think you can hear something proves absolutely nothing, since you may not be physically hearing the sound, you can still believe you 'sense' something, the thing that your brain is synthesising. That is not the same thing at all, and anyone insisting it is is frankly deluding themselves.

Continuing to insist that you can hear below 20 Hz just makes you come across as a bit of a fool who cannot accept the scientific truth. The problem here is people stating that they can hear anything below 20Hz, and insisting they are not hearing 2nd order harmonics or above when it is fact that you cant. I suppose this is akin to the creationalists' view of the world

[alexclaber]

Ah, but the harmonics of an F#0 are stacked differently to an F#1, so you get:

23, 46, 69, 92, 115, 138, 161, 184, 207, 230 Hz harmonics in the lows (though your amp will not reproduce the 23Hz loud enough to hear so forget that).

Whilst the F#1 will contain:

46, 92, 138, 184, 230Hz, (in the lows, plenty more above). so it'll sound quite different.

The key in the amplication is to be able to reproduce the first overtone (or second harmonic) clearly, i.e. the 46 and 92Hz respectively. If your rig can't reproduce that then the lowest overtone you hear is a fifth, not an octave, which makes the pitch less clear. Despite what manufacturers' specs suggest, reproducing 46Hz at high SPL is not easy. Think BIG!

Alex

[51m0n]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='645308' date='Nov 4 2009, 02:59 PM']Ah, but the harmonics of an F#0 are stacked differently to an F#1, so you get:

23, 46, 69, 92, 115, 138, 161, 184, 207, 230 Hz harmonics in the lows (though your amp will not reproduce the 23Hz loud enough to hear so forget that).

Whilst the F#1 will contain:

46, 92, 138, 184, 230Hz, (in the lows, plenty more above). so it'll sound quite different.

The key in the amplication is to be able to reproduce the first overtone (or second harmonic) clearly, i.e. the 46 and 92Hz respectively. If your rig can't reproduce that then the lowest overtone you hear is a fifth, not an octave, which makes the pitch less clear. Despite what manufacturers' specs suggest, reproducing 46Hz at high SPL is not easy. Think BIG!

Alex[/quote]

Absolutely, so the brain perceives the F0 as a different (lower) note to an F1, yet the ear cant actually hear the fundamental of an F0.

Although you will feel it, ("Charlie Murphy, I think I'm bleedin' inside ma' chest").

[karlthebassist]

This is cool. I can't hear your clip though because of some reason or other.

Anyway,

I'd say, PM 7String, and ask him what gauge/make his strings are.
Email the manufacturer and ask for the gauges that they supply in the strings you require

So an F#, B, E, A, D, and possibly G

I asume you like heavier strings for downtuning and keeping the tension usable so prolly 125-45's + a big one for the F#

Then ask them for the tension measurements at pitch. They will most likely only have the tensions for standard tuning off hand, but you never know. You can then have a fair idea of how much more tension will be on the neck with your tuning/strings. From memory, a tuned E sting is actually under less tension than the A! So this might apply for the F# too. In which case, if you went for the 5 sting option, then having a F# and no high G might only add a couple of extra pounds tension overall. And a quality bass like the ones you mention looking at should easily be able to manage a couple of extra pounds.
See what I'm on about or have I explained it like a cock?

As for pickups/EQ. Standard EQ's may struggle with the frequencies of the low fundimental as they usually roll off below 20-30Hz, but I'd say the majority of passive pickups should have no trouble "seeing" the movement of the strings and giving you a signal.

Graphite/brass nut could be useful, but I guess the real problem could be getting the strings into the tuners and through the bridge. But things can be modified....

[Mr. Foxen]

Totally read the link I posted early in the thread for discussion on reproducing the lower fundamentals of F#0.

Also, compare the Low A clips (a tone below low B on a 5 string) clips in my sig with the F0 clip, see which is beefier sounding, there's a lot of work to be done to get that, going lower takes even more.