Alun Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 I found it fine ( much better than expected) at medium levels, haven't tried it at loud rock gig levels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoJoKe Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='60360' date='Sep 14 2007, 12:43 PM']Exactly, IYHO. Certainly not Stuff and nonsense though. so if you have the current version then its not the same as the one i had and so not really fare to tell me i couldnt hear it. Mine would have been smaller (in fact its square). when i took mine back we plugged it in to a LMII in the shop and also tested out a UL115, same settings etc, just unplugged one for the other. what a difference. A lot more volume but also the UL115 sounded very full and deep with loads of punch and sweet highs. even the guy in the shop said the 151P is more part of a system than a stand alone. YMMV of course.[/quote] Please, No personal offence meant at all!! This is a forum for opinion, not critiscism!! Others have been negative about my CMD151p ITheirHO, and I welcome that feedback, even if I don't happen to agree!! It doesn't make any of us wrong or right! I have no experience at all of the old model, so I guess (as someone has said in this, or another MB thread) that at least it means MB are doing a great job, listening to their customers and constantly improving their amps. Waahaay to that!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted September 16, 2007 Share Posted September 16, 2007 [quote name='MoJoKe' post='61221' date='Sep 16 2007, 04:32 PM']Please, No personal offence meant at all!! This is a forum for opinion, not critiscism!! Others have been negative about my CMD151p ITheirHO, and I welcome that feedback, even if I don't happen to agree!! It doesn't make any of us wrong or right! I have no experience at all of the old model, so I guess (as someone has said in this, or another MB thread) that at least it means MB are doing a great job, listening to their customers and constantly improving their amps. Waahaay to that!![/quote] Ok, not wanting to start anything so im fine. The thing is to me the fact that i couldnt hear meyself (or the band hear me) is not stuff and noncence as you implied. I felt that was a personal attack on my thoughts and so i responded to it. I realise we all like and hear different things and i wouldn't put your thoughts down if i didn't agree with how you hear things. I still think you are talking about a different cab as MB have changed the design recently so your cab may well be better sounding anyway. Like i said though, no big deal as far as im concerned. We are all here to help each other as you have said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoJoKe Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 (edited) [quote name='dave_bass5' post='60324' date='Sep 14 2007, 11:50 AM']Can i just ask about you placing your combo on a box lid to get it off the stage. Im not too hot on these matters but wouldn't that act in a similar way to just placing it on the stage. wouldn't it increase the boom? Anyway, back to the topic. ive seen a couple of small, outside function gigs with bass players using the 210 combo and it is indeed a good one to get your sound across and heard clearly. very tight sound IMO.[/quote] Certainly agree with your thought of adding a 210 cab, would certainly make the mids more punchy. I'll see if I can borrow one to try, but am already assuming I'll need to start saving up! With regard the above, the boom effect is caused by the amp making the stage act like a resonator, a bit like the bridge/soundboard of a doublebass or a struck tuning fork touched on a table. Anything you can do to soften the connection between the two, a chair, stand, bottom of a wheeled flightcase, or its lid, or even a good thick wadge of carpet or foam will do this. The box lid may resonate in its own right, but the effect would be far less than direct contact with the stage. Getting the amp higher also will make it sound better as the the broader tonal range will be more audible to you standing closer. Only problem with this and the newer CMD 151p model, as I said in my earlier post, is the tweeter is not switchable and if you like a sharp, toppy sound, you may have to compromise to avoid feedback!! The 210 cab addition would be the obvious solution here! Edited September 17, 2007 by MoJoKe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 I understand about the boom aspect. The reason i asked about the lid was a while ago i did a gig on a wooden stage and it sounded ok. a bit of boom but that helped me feel the bass and meant i didnt have to turn the lows up to compensate. All went well the first set and then we had a small brass section come on and so i put my cab on the drum riser. It was only small, less than a foot high but it totally destroyed my sound. suddenly it became lifeless, ihad to back the lows off quite a bit and then boost the mids just to get heard out front. I didnt change the distance from the wall, just raised it up a bit but of course it was on a hollow drum riser on a hollow sage. I have tried a few times to get my cab off the ground but i always feel it looses too much low end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoJoKe Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='61572' date='Sep 17 2007, 11:26 AM']I understand about the boom aspect. The reason i asked about the lid was a while ago i did a gig on a wooden stage and it sounded ok. a bit of boom but that helped me feel the bass and meant i didnt have to turn the lows up to compensate. All went well the first set and then we had a small brass section come on and so i put my cab on the drum riser. It was only small, less than a foot high but it totally destroyed my sound. suddenly it became lifeless, ihad to back the lows off quite a bit and then boost the mids just to get heard out front. I didnt change the distance from the wall, just raised it up a bit but of course it was on a hollow drum riser on a hollow sage. I have tried a few times to get my cab off the ground but i always feel it looses too much low end.[/quote] Yes, I know what you mean, thats the effect working in reverse, where the resonance is actually beneficial and desirable, and by disconnecting the cab from the stage it buggers up the whole sound! I use big floor standing speakers on my home surround sound, rather than bookshelf ones for exactly the same reason. The room resonates better and provides a much fuller sound with far better bass response. Interestingly enough, if your cabs are rear vented (like the new CMD151P) the distance from the wall behind can also shape the sound +/- I have played with several guitarists in my time, who use fender amps facing the wall, as they think the "reflected" sound is better than the direct sound (I know they are a different breed, but we should respect their opinions too, however stupid this sounds!!!). If you record with a live amp, rather than direct into a preamp/desk, the amp postioning can be as critical as the mike positioning! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 [quote name='MoJoKe' post='61596' date='Sep 17 2007, 12:29 PM']Yes, I know what you mean, thats the effect working in reverse, where the resonance is actually beneficial and desirable, and by disconnecting the cab from the stage it buggers up the whole sound! I use big floor standing speakers on my home surround sound, rather than bookshelf ones for exactly the same reason. The room resonates better and provides a much fuller sound with far better bass response. Interestingly enough, if your cabs are rear vented (like the new CMD151P) the distance from the wall behind can also shape the sound +/- I have played with several guitarists in my time, who use fender amps facing the wall, as they think the "reflected" sound is better than the direct sound (I know they are a different breed, but we should respect their opinions too, however stupid this sounds!!!). If you record with a live amp, rather than direct into a preamp/desk, the amp postioning can be as critical as the mike positioning![/quote] Im with you on that. I dont know if you have seen it but in a thread somewhere on BC there is a guy called Alex Clabber and he posted a chart that had distance from boundary walls and what frequencies are effected. Very useful. Thats why i said i didnt change the distance from the back wall. I do pay more attention to these sort of things now and it does help. All my cabs are front ported by the way but i believe it doesnt make a big difference. I still find i loose some low end out front but im getting used to not trying to fill the room with low end now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 (edited) Sorry, a bit off topic but heres the thread (mine actually) Post #17 [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=2746"]Hollow stages[/url] Edited September 17, 2007 by dave_bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 [quote name='MoJoKe' post='61533' date='Sep 17 2007, 10:12 AM']With regard the above, the boom effect is caused by the amp making the stage act like a resonator, a bit like the bridge/soundboard of a doublebass or a struck tuning fork touched on a table. Anything you can do to soften the connection between the two, a chair, stand, bottom of a wheeled flightcase, or its lid, or even a good thick wadge of carpet or foam will do this. The box lid may resonate in its own right, but the effect would be far less than direct contact with the stage. Getting the amp higher also will make it sound better as the the broader tonal range will be more audible to you standing closer.[/quote] Good to see someone else who's aware of these things! A few clarifications to add: This stage/floor resonance you refer to is called mechanical coupling and is usually a bad thing as it causes response peaks around the resonant frequencies of the membrane (floor, stage, etc.) It could also cause nulls where the resonances are out of phase with the amp output. The other type of coupling is acoustic coupling or boundary reinforcement, where the reflected wave from walls, floor and ceilings is in phase with the amp output, thus increasing output by 6dB per boundary that contributes, to a maximum of 18dB gain. [quote name='MoJoKe' post='61596' date='Sep 17 2007, 12:29 PM']I use big floor standing speakers on my home surround sound, rather than bookshelf ones for exactly the same reason. The room resonates better and provides a much fuller sound with far better bass response.[/quote] I think you'll find that floor standing speakers have better bass due to larger cabinet volume, not due to mechanical coupling with the floor. In fact most floor standing speakers have spikes to reduce this coupling. [quote name='MoJoKe' post='61596' date='Sep 17 2007, 12:29 PM']Interestingly enough, if your cabs are rear vented (like the new CMD151P) the distance from the wall behind can also shape the sound +/-[/quote] All bass cabs are affected by the distance from the rear wall. The positioning of the ports has no effect as the size of the ports are so small compared to the wavelengths they output that their output is fully omnidirectional. [quote name='MoJoKe' post='61596' date='Sep 17 2007, 12:29 PM']If you record with a live amp, rather than direct into a preamp/desk, the amp postioning can be as critical as the mike positioning![/quote] Absolutely! It's even critical if you're DIing whilst monitoring through near-flat response cabs like mine because the sound in the room usually has extra bass due to boundary reinforcement and if this is the sound you want on the recording you need to EQ it into the DI'd signal (best done when mixing, not tracking). Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted September 17, 2007 Share Posted September 17, 2007 (edited) Hi Alex Your wisdom has been very helpful just recently. Thanks again. Edited September 17, 2007 by dave_bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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