Lightweight Sub-Woofers

[Happy Jack]

1 minute ago, JohnDaBass said:

Would you advocate replacing the speaker in the Citronic sub with something of a higher quality and greater excursion capabilities -Xmax?

 

But Shirley that defeats the object of buying a cheap sub?

[Happy Jack]

On 09/10/2025 at 10:21, synthaside said:

Now who would go and do that ay ...

Cough ....  this is exactly what i was looking for as i want to avoid Rack gear and  it looks simply enough conceptually would you look at that its fallen off ebay ... 

Now ... I guess i have to decide what  at frequency im crossing .... perhaps because its running to a dedicated  bass amp rather than a sub it should shoot a little higher to 100 /120 rather than 80 ?

 

So, three months later, did this work for you?

[JohnDaBass]

8 minutes ago, Happy Jack said:

 

But Shirley that defeats the object of buying a cheap sub?

From John @Chienmortbb recent review of his system ( 2 x Wharfdale Typhon 8's) he invested in a second Citronic Casa 10 sub to achieve the performance he was seeking. Wishing to use just one sub, it seemed an idea to upgrade the speaker in a light , well made cab and panel amp. On my radar would be the next step up from the Citronic Casa 10 to a Alto TX12S to match the Alto TS408s. But would I achieve similar performce from a £100 speaker upgrade?

That was the basis of seeking John and Phil's opinions.

[Phil Starr]

6 hours ago, JohnDaBass said:

 

Question to @Phil Starr and @Chienmortbb.

Would you advocate replacing the speaker in the Citronic sub with something of a higher quality and greater excursion capabilities -Xmax?  Maybe Faital Pro, Celestion or B&C ?

This is very much John's project and I haven't yet had a chance to listen to his system. 

 

Our thought was that at the price he paid the plate amp with a built in crossover was worth the price of the package. We had discussed just about every possibility including my developing a cab and John the amp from scratch and this was cheaper than the parts for the amp. When it turned up it was surprisingly well put together and sounded OK with the original Wharfedales.

 

I did run models to look at using better quality 10's including Fane, Celestion, Beyma and Faital. Most of these gave no increase in output, mainly because they are only available in 8ohms. I did manage to find TS parameters for the fitted drive units as they were being sold as spares at the time. The 120db maximum output checks out as genuine. This compares with RCF/Yamaha and the like who all routinely quote only peak output which is 6db higher than the maximum continuous output they actually develop. The last conversation we had about this was to try the speakers and if they are short of output for John's needs to try some of the drive units I have as replacements. My feeling is that it's not something I would set out to do as a plan and there isn't a speaker for sale at sub £200 that would give you the extra 6db that a second sub would guarantee.

 

[Chienmortbb]

This is based on a message I sent to @JohnDaBass.

 

My first outing at Open Mic night . I used a single Sub with two tops for an open mic on thr 12th Feb. 
 

I took one sub, it sounded good. I hade the sub set to 125Hz and in hindsight should have used  80Hz. 
 

 I also had the HPF on 90 Hz on the Wharfedale’s and should have let the sub’s crossover take care of that. Over all the sound was good  I did not want it Bass heavy but in the event had to boost a bit around 100-120Hz. In
 

My band currently have no gigs until May at the moment so next outing is March Open Mic  on March 12th. 
 

I will probably try feeding the sub(s) from an aux feed then. It was frustrating not to be able to just go and turn the sub up at times. Using Aux Fed subs means I can use the PEQ on each output to suite both subs and tops, rather than relying on what different manufacturers choose for crossover/ LPF/HPF frequencies. 

 

In a band setting, I would not be out front so the Open mic is great for learning what the gear can do. 
 

I did put the Kala UBass through it and it sounded nice, although I don’t expect bass will go though it that much at Open Mic. One of the performers had a Fender Acoustasonic guitar and it sounded great through the system. 
 

In reality I did. It really need the Sub, there was plenty of bass coming out of the Typhon 8 AXFs. However there may well be a couple of keyboards coming next month so will take one or both. 
 

 

On Thursday, I could have made do with just the Typhon 8s. There quoted response +/- 3dB is 65Hz to 20 KHz, enough to be used as a bass cab in all but Dub. 

 

Edited Saturday at 14:02 by Chienmortbb

[Phil Starr]

On 14/02/2026 at 13:56, Chienmortbb said:

 

 I also had the HPF on 90 Hz on the Wharfedale’s and should have let the sub’s crossover take care of that.

Yeah I don't think using different frequencies on the crossovers is a good idea. you can easily end up with a gap in the frequency response which is audible and hard to get around. Far better to just use the sub's crossover. The response of subs is often far from flat but a 24db/8ve crossover is going to keep a lot of problems under control. I know I set a bad example in the past but that ws in the absence of any sort of crossover, if I'd had one I would have used it.

 

By all means experiment with aux fed sus but I still think your best result will be to use the built in crossovers, it aids set up times too once you have the relative levels set between subs and tops.

[Chienmortbb]

To be fair, when I have been testing the system, I did run the tops flat and that gave a pleasing sound. One of the issues is that the Typhon 8AXF speakers have significantly more power than the single sub, so it would be necessary to pull back the volume on the tops a lot compared to the subs. I will be taking both subs next month.

 

  

[JohnDaBass]

18 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

Yeah I don't think using different frequencies on the crossovers is a good idea. you can easily end up with a gap in the frequency response which is audible and hard to get around. Far better to just use the sub's crossover. The response of subs is often far from flat but a 24db/8ve crossover is going to keep a lot of problems under control. I know I set a bad example in the past but that ws in the absence of any sort of crossover, if I'd had one I would have used it.

 

By all means experiment with aux fed sus but I still think your best result will be to use the built in crossovers, it aids set up times too once you have the relative levels set between subs and tops.

I have been testing various settings of my newly acquired Citronic CASA 10BA and Alto TS408. The sub has two Xover settings 80hz and 120hz, while the TS408 have three 80hz, 100hz & 120hz. 

I agree totally with @Phil Starr conclusions, using different HPF settings on sub and tops creates a gap that is clearly audible.

My testing suggests that I will be using sub at 120hz and tops at 120hz at our next rehearsal. So far I'm really pleased with this simple setup of Flow-8 managing Beat-Buddy & 2 x Vox into the CASA 10BA & Alto TS408 for our trio.

[Phil Starr]

48 minutes ago, JohnDaBass said:

So far I'm really pleased with this simple setup of Flow-8 managing Beat-Buddy & 2 x Vox into the CASA 10BA & Alto TS408 for our trio.

I'm always slightly worried when somebody buys equipment I've reviewed so I'm really pleased the Flow 8 is working well for you. Mine is sitting on my desk doing it's thing so much better than my old Alesis without a hiccup despite being on 24/7. I've only used other peoples Alto 408's a couple of times at open mics but I'm really impressed with the sound for vocals /acoustic instruments which I find better than the Alto 12" cabs.

[Phil Starr]

12 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

To be fair, when I have been testing the system, I did run the tops flat and that gave a pleasing sound. One of the issues is that the Typhon 8AXF speakers have significantly more power than the single sub, so it would be necessary to pull back the volume on the tops a lot compared to the subs. I will be taking both subs next month.

 

  

I'm dying to come across to hear these John. I gigged in a small venue this Saturday with my band and my RCF ART745's were just way over the top and physically narrowed the stage. The volume limit was restricted by feedback so I was just carrying a lot of cabinet for no reason. My duo sound every bit as good with just the ART310's and I'm thinking a smaller rig for smaller venues with the band might be justified. We rehearse in a bigger venue than we usually gig so I've got the opportunity to try out a smaller system.