Allen & Heath CQ desks

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, Chienmortbb said:

 I had a Soundcraft Ui16 for a while and the difference between that and the CQ20 is very noticeable. 

 

As in the Soundcraft Ui16 was considerably better in terms of pre-amps? 

[Chienmortbb]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

 

As in the Soundcraft Ui16 was considerably better in terms of pre-amps? 

No, the Ui16 was noisier, much noisier. Don't get me wrong, there are features on the Behringer and Soundcraft consoles that are not on the CQ series but as far as the basic audio performance, the CQ is better. I know someone will ask so:

 

These are my own thoughts and experienced users, especially of the Behringer Mixers, may well have different views

 

Soundcraft Ui12/16

 

Pros,

 

• User Interface is a web page, so will work on almost any device without additional software.
• Has few features that the CQ does not, although many were added in the last firmware update.
• Demo of HTML Interface is on the website 
• Can be fully controlled from a phone. 

Cons

 

• Very old design (over 10 years)
• Very slow updayes since Samsung took over Harman, Soundcraft's parent company.
• Noisy pre-amps/AtoD converters.

The Ui24r is a later design and reputedly improved pre amps and analogue to digital converters. It also (like the CQ range) has multichannel record capabilities and unlike the CQ has a built-in matrix.

 

Behringer X12/18 Etc

 

Pros:

• Low cost
• Includes a Matrix, it's like an internal patch bay.

Cons:

• Noisy Pre amps.
• Wi-Fi control unusable without external router.
• Old design
• Control Software updates very slow on some platforms.

 In my experience, the Wi-Fi on the CQ 18/20 is better than both the Soundcraft and basic Behringer mixers. Saying that, there are occasions when even the CQ suffers Wi-Fi issues. The CQ18 and has a built-in touch screen, so you never actually lose control. In hindsight, I wish I had gone for the CQ18 although the size, compared to the CQ20, is an issue. 

 

The good news is that the settings do not change on any of the above mixers if you lose control momentarily (UK meaning not US).

 

I should say that @Phil Starr has an RCF M18 and as far as I know, has never had an issue with the Wi-Fi on that. 

 

 

Edited November 18 by Chienmortbb

[Phil Starr]

3 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

 

I should say that @Phil Starr has an RCF M18 and as far as I know, has never had an issue with the Wi-Fi on that. 

Sadly they no longer manufacture this. I've even bought a second one, they are so good that I don't want to lose what they do. Fundamentally they are designed to do one job and that is to mix live music for a typical pub/club band. You have extensive facilities but nothing that is superfluous but workflow is meticulously worked out to be simple for any poor sod who is mixing whilst playing. Zero problems with the wi-fi on the mixer though Apple have decided that you can't use an iPad without an internet connection for more than an hour. I need to stop it tethering to my phone in the middle of a gig. That's not the mixer's fault it's 'Apple knows best'

[Chienmortbb]

2 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

Sadly they no longer manufacture this. I've even bought a second one, they are so good that I don't want to lose what they do. Fundamentally they are designed to do one job and that is to mix live music for a typical pub/club band. You have extensive facilities but nothing that is superfluous but workflow is meticulously worked out to be simple for any poor sod who is mixing whilst playing. Zero problems with the wi-fi on the mixer though Apple have decided that you can't use an iPad without an internet connection for more than an hour. I need to stop it tethering to my phone in the middle of a gig. That's not the mixer's fault it's 'Apple knows best'

In the WiFi settings, you need to switch off Auto Join for all networks as if any are set to Auto Join, they will drop a network that has no internet connection.

[Al Krow]

7 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

In my experience, the Wi-Fi on the CQ 18/20 is better than both the Soundcraft and basic Behringer mixers. Saying that, there are occasions when even the CQ suffers Wi-Fi issues. The CQ18 and has a built-in touch screen, so you never actually lose control. In hindsight, I wish I had gone for the CQ18 although the size, compared to the CQ20, is an issue. 

 

The good news is that the settings do not change on any of the above mixers if you lose control momentarily (UK meaning not US).

 

I should say that @Phil Starr has an RCF M18 and as far as I know, has never had an issue with the Wi-Fi on that. 

 

We found the wifi connectivity improved a lot and we no longer suffer drop outs following switching the CQ desk's internal setting from 2.4GHz to 5.8GHz

[LawrenceH]

This is all great info, thanks. And nice to be back here having needed to step away from it all a while ago.

 

Preamp noise is an interesting one - obviously it matters for some scenarios whereas others it matters not a jot, but is that the only audible difference? Some classic pres are not exactly quiet but they sound great. What I've noticed with crappy budget gear sometimes is a slight (or not so slight) harshness and/or grainyness that accumulates across the channels. Likewise some EQs just sound better than others in a way that feels like it's not wholly about centre frequency and slope/Q. Basically, studio and live I've tended to find the better the gear, the easier mixing becomes. Just not sure where that stops being significant with these digital mixers!

 

The RCF M18 sounds interesting even if only available secondhand.

[Phil Starr]

Welcome back @LawrenceH it's good to see you again, I did a double take when I saw your post 

 

The M18 seems to be going at around £300 used. The downsides are 'only' 8 proper mic channels, it will only record the stereo mix and the external antenna is slightly flimsy. My band is a 4 piece and we all sing so four voal mis and three drum mics are do-able and you have 6 aux outputs for monitoring. Two of the channels are hi-Z for guitar and bass with amp sims and fx. Band members can access their monitor mix on their phones but are locked out of doing any damage elsewhere

 

The plus side is wi-fi that works. Really slick seamless software with very little in the way of a learning curve. I was up and away in 10mins at the first rehearsal. No menu that is more than two clicks away. Gloriously you can tap on any of the faders and they will go up or down 1db so one two or three taps will usually get you where you want mid gig.

 

 

 

Edited November 19 by Phil Starr

[LawrenceH]

Thanks Phil, very impressed to see what you've been up to on the DIY side and Stevie on the commercial side - and gratifying to read so many positive user reports, suggesting your ideas about what made good-sounding cabinets are shared by many others. I must admit since I built my 2 little 1x10" cabinets with Celestion's (sadly-discontinued) neo drivers in, my desire to fiddle around with more speakers gets countered by the knowledge I have no space for more and have yet to find a scenario where these aren't enough. But I still have some ideas!

 

Anyway back on-topic I'll look out for the RCF but ideally would like a few more XLR channels for the now very occasional times I get asked to do sound for others. Ease of use aside, I'd just like to know if I'll hear any real difference going for A&H over the Behringer. 

 

 

[LawrenceH]

Well, a CQ20b is on its way to me having popped up at a very decent price, complete with case. Entering the digital age!

 

So I need something like an iPad to run it. Anyone got any recommendations or advice? Main concern is long term reliability and stability. I might explore using it for other music things but I don't want to splash another grand on an iPad pro especially if the bog standard one looks to have a good lifespan

[Al Krow]

44 minutes ago, LawrenceH said:

Well, a CQ20b is on its way to me having popped up at a very decent price, complete with case. Entering the digital age!

 

So I need something like an iPad to run it. Anyone got any recommendations or advice? Main concern is long term reliability and stability. I might explore using it for other music things but I don't want to splash another grand on an iPad pro especially if the bog standard one looks to have a good lifespan

 

I bought a 2023 model of this with less RAM and for nearly double the price, back then. Has performed really well since. It's not the fastest chipset in terms of booting up, but that's a non issue when you have so much else to be getting on with setting up pre gig! Now ridiculously good value at under £60 on Amazon.

 

DOOGEE U10 (2025) Android 15 Tablet 10 inch, 16GB RAM+128GB ROM(1TB TF)

[Chienmortbb]

14 minutes ago, LawrenceH said:

Well, a CQ20b is on its way to me having popped up at a very decent price, complete with case. Entering the digital age!

 

So I need something like an iPad to run it. Anyone got any recommendations or advice? Main concern is long term reliability and stability. I might explore using it for other music things but I don't want to splash another grand on an iPad pro especially if the bog standard one looks to have a good lifespan

I had the bog-standard Gen 9 model (I think) iPad before I got my CQ20B, and it has been fine. According to the App Store, you need at least iPadOS 15 to run A&H's MixPad app.

 

Many CQ users run Mixing Station, a third party app that will control most of the digital mixers, and is favoured by many professional sound techs. The reason is that it is multiplatform so you can buy a licence for each mixer and set the UI up to suit yourself.

Mixing Station still runs perfectly on iOS 11 or Android 5 devices. The cost of Mixing Station for the CQ is £9.99 so not outrageous.

 

 

[LawrenceH]

Thanks chaps - good to know even a cheapo Android tablet has been reliable. Slightly hesitant to risk it on a gig! But a standard iPad seems within the realms of affordability, and assuming that Apple batteries and OS tend to be pretty stable.

 

Couple of questions if you don't mind:

 

Is it easy or even possible to swap devices to, say, a second tablet or indeed a phone as backup if the main controller goes wrong?

 

Also, is a wired connection possible while charging the tablet? Or would I have to use wireless in that scenario?

 

I will definitely take a look at Mixing Station as well, thanks for the tip.

[Al Krow]

6 hours ago, LawrenceH said:

Thanks chaps - good to know even a cheapo Android tablet has been reliable. Slightly hesitant to risk it on a gig! But a standard iPad seems within the realms of affordability, and assuming that Apple batteries and OS tend to be pretty stable.

 

Couple of questions if you don't mind:

 

Is it easy or even possible to swap devices to, say, a second tablet or indeed a phone as backup if the main controller goes wrong?

 

Also, is a wired connection possible while charging the tablet? Or would I have to use wireless in that scenario?

 

I will definitely take a look at Mixing Station as well, thanks for the tip.

 

Well I've risked it on over a hundred gigs since I bought it a couple of years back!  Not been tempted to upgrade just yet particularly as my first, much posher, tablet got trashed on its first outing by a drunken punter at a fancy function gig when he fell and knocked over my mic stand! But you'll get better quality from an iPad, for sure. Plus you're purely reliant on a tablet whereas the CQ12 & 18T have excellent screens which makes using the tablet optional.

 

I've not needed to use it wired, fingers crossed, as I make sure my tablet is fully charged before leaving the house. The key tip for connectivity has been to switch the CQ from 2.4 GHz to 5GHz - made a massive difference.

Edited 22 hours ago by Al Krow

[Chienmortbb]

I agree with Ed, sorry Al. Using 5GHz is your best bet. The CQ is the best compact mixer on WiFi however many people do use travel routers with them, not because the WiFi is not good but often so they can run wired and wireless networking at the same time. One limitation is that you can only use wired or wireless on the CQ, not both at the same time. 
 

I have used both Soundcraft Ui and The Behringer X series and both have virtually unusable WiFi and had to have an external router. 

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, Chienmortbb said:

I agree with Ed, sorry Al. Using 5GHz is your best bet. The CQ is the best compact mixer on WiFi however many people do use travel routers with them, not because the WiFi is not good but often so they can run wired and wireless networking at the same time. One limitation is that you can only use wired or wireless on the CQ, not both at the same time. 
 

I have used both Soundcraft Ui and The Behringer X series and both have virtually unusable WiFi and had to have an external router. 

 

Not sure what we are in disagreement about? 😅

[Chienmortbb]

Only that I have had problems with lag on Android tablets. However have now ordered a the one you suggested to try. 

[Al Krow]

8 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

Only that I have had problems with lag on Android tablets. However have now ordered a the one you suggested to try. 

 

I literally can't think of a better way of settling the issue! 😅