Allen & Heath CQ desks

[Al Krow]

1 hour ago, Chienmortbb said:

 I had a Soundcraft Ui16 for a while and the difference between that and the CQ20 is very noticeable. 

 

As in the Soundcraft Ui16 was considerably better in terms of pre-amps? 

[Chienmortbb]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

 

As in the Soundcraft Ui16 was considerably better in terms of pre-amps? 

No, the Ui16 was noisier, much noisier. Don't get me wrong, there are features on the Behringer and Soundcraft consoles that are not on the CQ series but as far as the basic audio performance, the CQ is better. I know someone will ask so:

 

These are my own thoughts and experienced users, especially of the Behringer Mixers, may well have different views

 

Soundcraft Ui12/16

 

Pros,

 

• User Interface is a web page, so will work on almost any device without additional software.
• Has few features that the CQ does not, although many were added in the last firmware update.
• Demo of HTML Interface is on the website 
• Can be fully controlled from a phone. 

Cons

 

• Very old design (over 10 years)
• Very slow updayes since Samsung took over Harman, Soundcraft's parent company.
• Noisy pre-amps/AtoD converters.

The Ui24r is a later design and reputedly improved pre amps and analogue to digital converters. It also (like the CQ range) has multichannel record capabilities and unlike the CQ has a built-in matrix.

 

Behringer X12/18 Etc

 

Pros:

• Low cost
• Includes a Matrix, it's like an internal patch bay.

Cons:

• Noisy Pre amps.
• Wi-Fi control unusable without external router.
• Old design
• Control Software updates very slow on some platforms.

 In my experience, the Wi-Fi on the CQ 18/20 is better than both the Soundcraft and basic Behringer mixers. Saying that, there are occasions when even the CQ suffers Wi-Fi issues. The CQ18 and has a built-in touch screen, so you never actually lose control. In hindsight, I wish I had gone for the CQ18 although the size, compared to the CQ20, is an issue. 

 

The good news is that the settings do not change on any of the above mixers if you lose control momentarily (UK meaning not US).

 

I should say that @Phil Starr has an RCF M18 and as far as I know, has never had an issue with the Wi-Fi on that. 

 

 

Edited 20 hours ago by Chienmortbb

[Phil Starr]

3 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

 

I should say that @Phil Starr has an RCF M18 and as far as I know, has never had an issue with the Wi-Fi on that. 

Sadly they no longer manufacture this. I've even bought a second one, they are so good that I don't want to lose what they do. Fundamentally they are designed to do one job and that is to mix live music for a typical pub/club band. You have extensive facilities but nothing that is superfluous but workflow is meticulously worked out to be simple for any poor sod who is mixing whilst playing. Zero problems with the wi-fi on the mixer though Apple have decided that you can't use an iPad without an internet connection for more than an hour. I need to stop it tethering to my phone in the middle of a gig. That's not the mixer's fault it's 'Apple knows best'

[Chienmortbb]

2 hours ago, Phil Starr said:

Sadly they no longer manufacture this. I've even bought a second one, they are so good that I don't want to lose what they do. Fundamentally they are designed to do one job and that is to mix live music for a typical pub/club band. You have extensive facilities but nothing that is superfluous but workflow is meticulously worked out to be simple for any poor sod who is mixing whilst playing. Zero problems with the wi-fi on the mixer though Apple have decided that you can't use an iPad without an internet connection for more than an hour. I need to stop it tethering to my phone in the middle of a gig. That's not the mixer's fault it's 'Apple knows best'

In the WiFi settings, you need to switch off Auto Join for all networks as if any are set to Auto Join, they will drop a network that has no internet connection.

[Al Krow]

7 hours ago, Chienmortbb said:

In my experience, the Wi-Fi on the CQ 18/20 is better than both the Soundcraft and basic Behringer mixers. Saying that, there are occasions when even the CQ suffers Wi-Fi issues. The CQ18 and has a built-in touch screen, so you never actually lose control. In hindsight, I wish I had gone for the CQ18 although the size, compared to the CQ20, is an issue. 

 

The good news is that the settings do not change on any of the above mixers if you lose control momentarily (UK meaning not US).

 

I should say that @Phil Starr has an RCF M18 and as far as I know, has never had an issue with the Wi-Fi on that. 

 

We found the wifi connectivity improved a lot and we no longer suffer drop outs following switching the CQ desk's internal setting from 2.4GHz to 5.8GHz

[LawrenceH]

This is all great info, thanks. And nice to be back here having needed to step away from it all a while ago.

 

Preamp noise is an interesting one - obviously it matters for some scenarios whereas others it matters not a jot, but is that the only audible difference? Some classic pres are not exactly quiet but they sound great. What I've noticed with crappy budget gear sometimes is a slight (or not so slight) harshness and/or grainyness that accumulates across the channels. Likewise some EQs just sound better than others in a way that feels like it's not wholly about centre frequency and slope/Q. Basically, studio and live I've tended to find the better the gear, the easier mixing becomes. Just not sure where that stops being significant with these digital mixers!

 

The RCF M18 sounds interesting even if only available secondhand.

[Phil Starr]

Welcome back @LawrenceH it's good to see you again, I did a double take when I saw your post 

 

The M18 seems to be going at around £300 used. The downsides are 'only' 8 proper mic channels, it will only record the stereo mix and the external antenna is slightly flimsy. My band is a 4 piece and we all sing so four voal mis and three drum mics are do-able and you have 6 aux outputs for monitoring. Two of the channels are hi-Z for guitar and bass with amp sims and fx. Band members can access their monitor mix on their phones but are locked out of doing any damage elsewhere

 

The plus side is wi-fi that works. Really slick seamless software with very little in the way of a learning curve. I was up and away in 10mins at the first rehearsal. No menu that is more than two clicks away. Gloriously you can tap on any of the faders and they will go up or down 1db so one two or three taps will usually get you where you want mid gig.

 

 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by Phil Starr