Sandberg TM4 - Pick up change?

[Stofferson]

So few weeks into owning my Sandberg TM4 and although it sounds great at home, I just cant get it to sit right with the band.

 

I don't know much about Delano's but long story short they are a bit too hifi to play nice in the mix, read few threads dotted about online with suggesting similar.

 

Its two band preamp(bass and treble/tone when passive), switch for single coil / humbucker on the MM style bridge pickup, balance control and master volume/push pull for active passive.

 

I'm after less sparkly top end and more low mid range punch.

 

Ideal world I'm a fan of EMG's but I don't think I could drop in a set without getting an EMG preamp too.

 

would an alternative Humbucker drop in and onto the preamp easy?

 

Anyone else done this?

 

 

 

[Baloney Balderdash]

4 hours ago, Stofferson said:

I don't know much about Delano's but long story short they are a bit too hifi to play nice in the mix, read few threads dotted about online with suggesting similar.

 

Ideal world I'm a fan of EMG's but I don't think I could drop in a set without getting an EMG preamp too.

 

You can, but EMG pickups are generally known for being pretty Hi-Fi sounding as well.

 

Edited January 11 by Baloney Balderdash

[chyc]

Do you know what EMG pickups you want? EMG do passive pickups which could work here (warning: I've never tried), but I have in my head that EMGs are famous for their active pickups, which won't work in the Sandberg without swapping out the preamp. I believe the confusion stems from the fact that you can pair an active preamp with passive pickups, as with the Sandberg you own. For active pickups, you need an active preamp, but one specifically designed for such a scenario.

 

I own a Sandberg TT4 and I get what you're saying, it's a very glassy tone. On one of my other basses I fitted it with UltraMag strings and those really gave it a mid-range punch (once things settled down) that I absolutely love and it sounds like this is what you're after. I have a new set ready to be put on my TT4, but I don't want to waste strings with life left in them still. Shame the timings haven't worked out here because if you'd have asked this question in a year or so I would have been able to give a more definitive answer as to whether it helps. Based on my other bass (also a Sandberg BTW), these strings may well be a cheaper solution to new pickups.

[Stofferson]

Thanks both

 

Yeah I've got emgs in my corvette albeit a jazz set VVT, so this is my first experience with an MM style humbuck and a single coil with a full active preamp.

 

AHH I've used elixirs for years and everything else feels weird to me now. 

 

I understand sticking some emgs in I'd have to get one of the preamps also.

 

I was looking at alternative Delano humbuckers, I believe the one currently in is Alnico magnets which gives it that distinct tone so maybe a straight swap with a non Alnico Delano would be easier. Hesitate to open it all up until I'm certain though. 

 

I'll keep investigating, I've got an EQ pedal to play with too so that might help

[chyc]

1 hour ago, Stofferson said:

AHH I've used elixirs for years and everything else feels weird to me now. 

 

Just for the record, Elixirs are what I have currently on my TT4, and yes to my ears it does sound really Hi-Fi and a bit brittle as you say. Appreciate it's more than just tone so if the feel and tension are just right with those then switching strings may not be for you. The Ultramags do feel different.

[itu]

5 hours ago, chyc said:

... I believe the confusion stems from the fact that you can pair an active preamp with passive pickups, as with the Sandberg you own. For active pickups, you need an active preamp, but one specifically designed for such a scenario...

How is this true?

 

The difference between low impedance (lo-Z), and hi-Z ("passive") pickups is the impedance. If this was the thing that separates preamps from each other, what's the Z that divides the models?

 

Yes, there are very high Z input transducer preamps, like those built for piezos. But as battery powered EMG pickups and others alike are very lo-Z, they actually fit better to any preamp.

 

I do not see any reason why an EMG pickup wouldn't work with a John East, or any other preamp. Just like they work with your or my amp's input.

[chyc]

8 hours ago, itu said:

How is this true?

Presumably in the same way that you can technically plug some speakers directly into line-out as it's all electromagnetic waves. The preamps are designed for different levels of gain and impedence. I've plugged in an ultra-high impedance pickup into a mere high-impedance amplifier. Did it make sound? Yeah, I guess. Did it sound great? No, not so much.

 

You also need to deal with the fact that active-pickup-preamps, when they have a bypass, still supply come kind of active circuitry to buffer the pickups. My Warwick for example has active MEC pickups, with a preamp bypass switch, yet when the battery is removed the bass doesn't function at all, even when preamp bypass is engaged.

[bloke_zero]

Nordstand might have the right options for you? They make some nice MM and Jazz PUs and do old school flavours...

[itu]

15 hours ago, chyc said:

Presumably in the same way that you can technically plug some speakers directly into line-out as it's all electromagnetic waves. The preamps are designed for different levels of gain and impedence. I've plugged in an ultra-high impedance pickup into a mere high-impedance amplifier. Did it make sound? Yeah, I guess. Did it sound great? No, not so much.

 

You also need to deal with the fact that active-pickup-preamps, when they have a bypass, still supply come kind of active circuitry to buffer the pickups. My Warwick for example has active MEC pickups, with a preamp bypass switch, yet when the battery is removed the bass doesn't function at all, even when preamp bypass is engaged.

Signal levels from the power amp, and line level are decades away from each other. Not comparable.

 

But pickup outputs are not so very different, or the amp inputs should be very different. We already know that hi-Z pickups may be higher in output than lo-Z ones, but the ballpark is the same. The impedance (Z) can vary more.

 

If the pickup has some non-bypassable circuitry, it still does not affect the functionality of a (battery powered) preamp, does it? No battery, no sound, this is obvious. Bypassing a bass' pre then gives the sound of the pickups, no?

 

If we look at the system, it looks like this:

pickup (hi-Z) - tone stack - output

OR

pickup (hi-Z) - buffer (lo-Z) - tone stack - output

 

The first option's output is hi-Z, if the tone stack is hi-Z. If the stack is battery powered, output is lo-Z.

(The output impedance can be tweaked with certain choices in the preamp.)

 

A buffer can, and pretty often is, a voltage follower, i.e. the voltage stays the same, only the output impedance will be lower. EMG uses lower winding in the coils, so the circuitry amplifies the signal slightly. Then the output is in the same ballpark, as its hi-Z siblings.

 

The battery powered tone stack has buffers - usually a few - by nature. Now we add one more from the pickup, how are the preamp choices reduced?

 

This is how I understand bass' electronics. But true, it is quite some time from the university lectures.

Edited January 12 by itu

[chyc]

Hmm I hadn't considered you solder in the 9v to the pickups independent of the preamp. I was imagining the EMG kits with all the preassembled trunking. Yes that you're describing would work, but I would note that wouldn't be a drop in replacement.