DocTrucker Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 (edited) Morning All, Disclaimer: Early stage player with an urge to tinker with most things! Appreciate a 6 string wouldn't be most people's pick for me, and to reasure I have a trusty squire vintage modified which is my default rehersal bass! Earlier last year I bought a Harley Benton 6 string to experiment with. I enjoy playing it (after a comprehensive setup by Luither which corrected intonation issues) and am begining to use the extra strings a little more. There are however gremlins in the electronics. The sound out of the amp sometimes drops right down or becomes dull, doesn't appear to be down to my active pedal pre amp as my squire has so far been immune. I also find the push in volume knob switch to activate the active pickups infuriating as it has nearly always been knocked and flat by the time I need it! So at least a soldering iron job and at most a brain & pickup transplant! A few options... 1) Jack plug power cut for active pickups:- I think you can get jack plugs that control the power and use that to cut the power feed from the battery, or failing that add a switch somewhere. 2) Convert to plain passive:- Are the pick ups likely to be usable for conversion to passive? If so swap to a double tone and volume setup? 3) Alternative pickup & active:- Due to the neiche market for 6 string basses I'm assuming an alternative active pickups (or any pickups for that matter) are expensive? I've no issue with passive electronics as my squire sounds great to me. I appreciate the Harley Benton won't be the best advert for active, so won't judge active vs passive purely on this one! What are your thoughts on these options? I'm leaning to conversion to passive if people think that is likely to be feasible. Edited July 16, 2023 by DocTrucker Typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocTrucker Posted July 16, 2023 Author Share Posted July 16, 2023 I should clarify as I imagine most are not familiar with this beginner 6 string. This has a volume knob that when pulled out the active system is used and when pushed in it works as passive. Guess I've answered my own question on if passive can be used, so the question remains. Would you: Use existing pickups and rewire for pure passive. Or Look at alternative active electronics and either use a jack controlled power, add a switch somewhere, or simply remove battery as habit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itu Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 What do you mean by active pickups? Are they battery powered (EMG or similar), or do you have a battery powered preamp (tone stack) in the bass? I think the answer is the latter. You want vol-blend-tone, or vol-vol-tone, modification is possible and pretty simple. It is up to you to decide, if you want the flexibility and complexity of the battery powered part. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocTrucker Posted July 16, 2023 Author Share Posted July 16, 2023 (edited) Terminology not likely to be on point! There is a pre amp in the cavity. Is it anyones guess what a double humbucker is likely to sound like in the double volume tone setup? Is it something that lends itself to a specific style or are setup changes like this more subtle? Edit: Yeah, needs a clean! Been sat on thw side for a few months! Edited July 16, 2023 by DocTrucker Add missing photo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 According to the spec, it looks like the pickups are passive so removing the active circuitry and going 100% passive should be fairly straightforward. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocTrucker Posted July 16, 2023 Author Share Posted July 16, 2023 Great. Think that is the best way forward then. Not worth trying to fault find in that bird's nest! I did sketch out the the loom at one point but long since lost that! Link to model: https://harleybenton.com/product/b-650-bk/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulThePlug Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 Volume... Blend... Artec QTP (Quad Tone Passive) Tone Switch... Spare Hole... Some shorter bridge adjust screws from Spaldings (ebay) to save ya wrist! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 36 minutes ago, DocTrucker said: Great. Think that is the best way forward then. Not worth trying to fault find in that bird's nest! I did sketch out the the loom at one point but long since lost that! Link to model: https://harleybenton.com/product/b-650-bk/ You could always fit an after-market active circuit. Artec, as mentioned by @PaulThePlug - good shout ! - do some very economical active circuits you could drop in, space allowing. I've used a couple - they're very good for what you pay for them. Cheap enough to try as an experiment, perhaps ? Just to confuse options further ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocTrucker Posted July 16, 2023 Author Share Posted July 16, 2023 Thanks. Don't mind active that come with recomendations! Yes, thos units look only a little more pricy than a decent CTD or Bournes audio pot! From memory I think I had access to more than just hot and ground from the coils. Is it worth thinking about switches to change the wiring of each pickup, or is that only really useful/distinguishable for the most acutwly trained ear? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 (edited) You will get different tones if you do some switching with the coils in the pickup, but splitting a humbucker or wiring it from series to parallel can mean a drop in volume - just something to consider. Can you with these pickups ? I can't quite make it out from the photos - looks like you could have two hots and two grounds from each pickup ? Sorry - I trod on my reading glasses yesterday ! Edited July 16, 2023 by ahpook 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 (edited) Double post, just like my eyesight Edited July 16, 2023 by ahpook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itu Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 25 minutes ago, DocTrucker said: Is it worth thinking about switches to change the wiring of each pickup, or is that only really useful/distinguishable for the most acutwly trained ear? Your (feasible) options are ser/par, or ser/single. The latter has bigger difference in volume. If you use pots with switches, you do not need extra holes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocTrucker Posted July 16, 2023 Author Share Posted July 16, 2023 (edited) Just stripped it back a bit to see what I have got. Neck pick up looks to have nicely matched coils, one of the coils on the bridge is a bit mismatched, but at only 2.2% higher resistance than the other of the pair I'm assuming this is within the relms of matched? Neck (Ohms) 7160 black green (white red joined - serial) 3580 white black 3580 green red Bridge (Ohms) 7210 black green (white red joined - serial) (+0.7% over Neck) 3570 white black 3650 green red (+2.2% over first coil) Edit: Having written that I guess coil matching has to consider inductance too, so DC resistance only part of the story? Edited July 16, 2023 by DocTrucker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocTrucker Posted July 16, 2023 Author Share Posted July 16, 2023 Looking at other 6 string bass pickups on ebay that resistance (when wired in series) is about half that you'd expect for a 6 string pickup. So perhaps the fix would ideally include pickups too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted July 16, 2023 Share Posted July 16, 2023 That is a bit low, but I think you'll have to give them a listen to see if you like the sound when it's wired passive. You could just lash up some wires straight to the output jack to give them a rough and ready audition. I would 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocTrucker Posted July 17, 2023 Author Share Posted July 17, 2023 On 16/07/2023 at 16:57, ahpook said: You could just lash up some wires straight to the output jack to give them a rough and ready audition. I would Yup, that's the way it's going. I have two DPDT pickup tap switchs on order so I can do single/parallel/series changes on the coils, making sure I keep the current flow in the right direction for the humbucking. It won't be pretty but it will give the pickups a fair chance before looking at routing out for Warman MM6s. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocTrucker Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 The project was shelved for a long time but it finally made it through to test last night! Making a concious effort to finish some projects at the moment! I went for the Warman music man pickups which ment a little cutting out was required. I reused the pots which I think are an audio taper for tone, and an 250MN taper for blend. For both pickups there is a series/single/parallel switch, and for the mean while there is no master volume. Maybe I'll add thst another time! As you can see I'm missing one pickup! Alas when I went to check resistance on ghe jack lead for all switch positions and pot positions one pickup wasn't behaving right. Removed it and checked and one coil appears to be open. Sending that back for checkup. First impressions are the selector switch has far less effect on tone and volume than I expected. Certinally not on the same level of magnitude as tweaking the tone pot, or indeed maybe even shifting the plucking position on the bass. That said you can hear subtleties. Single sounds clearer, more like my Jaz bass, and I guess more acoustic like. Both series and parallel are slightly more fuzzy as you would expect, and there are differences. I need to listen more though! Pickup height is currently 3mm under the strings. It was initially 2mm but the floppy B string was regularly sucked onto the pickup! Look forward to getting the bridge pickup back! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocTrucker Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 Pictures didn't add on first attempt: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocTrucker Posted March 27 Author Share Posted March 27 (edited) Left loads of tail on the pickup wires to be tidied up another time after I am happy with the results. Will likely tidy up at the same time as adding a master volume. Edited March 27 by DocTrucker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocTrucker Posted April 14 Author Share Posted April 14 (edited) Finally finished the basics today. One of my Warman pickups was DOA. Returned it to them and they replaced and returned it arriving one day after I left for a 9 day break with the family! Hoping to sort pickup height this evening but so far the effect of the pickup selector is very interesting. Single coil not sounding far off my Jazz bass and series and parallel sounding subtlety different on all but volume! Recently been making an effort to finish some open ended projects and it's thankfully decimating the head Squirrel population! Can't see me completeing them all any time soon, but hopefully scratch off a few more soon. I'll class adding a master volume for this as a new project for another time! Edit: Pickup height sorted. Happy with it! Edited April 14 by DocTrucker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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