Mylkinut Posted April 23, 2023 Share Posted April 23, 2023 I'm refinishing an 80s MIJ Fender P, which from everything I've read should have a basswood body. I also read into whether basswood needs grain filler before finishing, and the consensus was overwhelmingly no. I'm using Manchester Guitar Tech nitro rattle cans, and this is my first time using nitro. I sanded the body down with 320 before applying a few coats of sanding sealer, which I also sanded flat with 320. I applied primer and everything looked ok after lightly flat sanding. I started on colour today, and the wood grain is showing through on the forearm and belly cuts, but nowhere else. Is this normal at this stage? Not sure I love the look! Is wet sanding following the clear coat likely to take this out? I'm assuming using a grain filler would have avoided this, but that ship has presumably sailed if I don't want to redo what's already proven to be a bit of a pain in the derrière. Would nitro end up looking like this anyway as the finish shrinks? Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mylkinut Posted April 23, 2023 Author Share Posted April 23, 2023 Looking at it again you can see the grain along the top horn too - looks like the wood used for that half of the body had an open grain, and the rest was much more closed. Wish I'd never started! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPJ Posted April 24, 2023 Share Posted April 24, 2023 You have a couple of options - just keep adding layers of nitro until you can sand flat, or strip the nitro and either sand the body further (I normally go to 600 grit before paint, sometimes 1000 grit if the grain is really open) or use a high-build primer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mylkinut Posted April 24, 2023 Author Share Posted April 24, 2023 Thanks, that's helpful. Since all I've got to lose is a can of clear and some time, I'll think I'll carry on and see where I end up. If it looks rubbish I can always strip it off and start again. It's a shame because the rest of the body looks ace, but you live and learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Downunderwonder Posted April 24, 2023 Share Posted April 24, 2023 People pay big bucks for a beat up bass with the finish worn down to seeing grain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted April 24, 2023 Share Posted April 24, 2023 I'd be tempted to flat it all back down and give it some more of the colour coat. Get the colour nice and flat before going on with the clear However you'll be surprised how much the lacquer will thin out over an extended curing time. Even if you get it looking flat you're likely to see some grain eventually. I did a guitar with dyed flamed maple (very tight grain) with a lot of clear lacquer and flatting back, and it was like a mirror when I finished. Several years later I can now see the grain in the right light. It still looks fantastic imho, but that's the nature of a nitro finish. I was just a bit surprised given the amount of clear lacquer I piled on. If you don't want any grain then use a 2k poly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lidl e Posted April 24, 2023 Share Posted April 24, 2023 i'm seeimg tjis exact same thing with my alder body i am currently finishing. it's very minimal and i was able to pretty much cover it up with nitro layers, but if is bothering you, you should grain fill it. that will guarantee no grain showing, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mylkinut Posted April 25, 2023 Author Share Posted April 25, 2023 12 hours ago, Downunderwonder said: People pay big bucks for a beat up bass with the finish worn down to seeing grain! Ha, fair point! The bass is 35 years old, should probably look it. 9 hours ago, Norris said: I'd be tempted to flat it all back down and give it some more of the colour coat. Get the colour nice and flat before going on with the clear However you'll be surprised how much the lacquer will thin out over an extended curing time. Even if you get it looking flat you're likely to see some grain eventually. I did a guitar with dyed flamed maple (very tight grain) with a lot of clear lacquer and flatting back, and it was like a mirror when I finished. Several years later I can now see the grain in the right light. It still looks fantastic imho, but that's the nature of a nitro finish. I was just a bit surprised given the amount of clear lacquer I piled on. If you don't want any grain then use a 2k poly Cheers for this - I'm kind of leaning towards carrying on with it since I'm warming to the look and it'll get there with time eventually, it's just not what I had in my head. My wife didn't see the problem: 'it's made of wood right?' 9 hours ago, lidl e said: i'm seeimg tjis exact same thing with my alder body i am currently finishing. it's very minimal and i was able to pretty much cover it up with nitro layers, but if is bothering you, you should grain fill it. that will guarantee no grain showing, Interesting that it could happen with alder too. How many nitro layers did it end up taking to cover it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lidl e Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 1 minute ago, Mylkinut said: Ha, fair point! The bass is 35 years old, should probably look it. Cheers for this - I'm kind of leaning towards carrying on with it since I'm warming to the look and it'll get there with time eventually, it's just not what I had in my head. My wife didn't see the problem: 'it's made of wood right?' Interesting that it could happen with alder too. How many nitro layers did it end up taking to cover it? I went for three coats of sanding sealer, then sanded, three coats of primer, 7 coats of colour, but i sanded at least a few back due to runs and six coats of clear. A lot to be fair, but im basically a beginner (although ive done it before with excellent results) but right inline with the reranch 101 steps. You can still slightly see the join in the front but im not worried. Almost zero grain showing now. Will see how it looks after polish. I couldnt be more pleased with how it looks currently. I have a build thread here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lidl e Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 (edited) On 23/04/2023 at 18:53, Mylkinut said: I'm refinishing an 80s MIJ Fender P, which from everything I've read should have a basswood body. I also read into whether basswood needs grain filler before finishing, and the consensus was overwhelmingly no. I'm using Manchester Guitar Tech nitro rattle cans, and this is my first time using nitro. I sanded the body down with 320 before applying a few coats of sanding sealer, which I also sanded flat with 320. I applied primer and everything looked ok after lightly flat sanding. I started on colour today, and the wood grain is showing through on the forearm and belly cuts, but nowhere else. Is this normal at this stage? Not sure I love the look! Is wet sanding following the clear coat likely to take this out? I'm assuming using a grain filler would have avoided this, but that ship has presumably sailed if I don't want to redo what's already proven to be a bit of a pain in the derrière. Would nitro end up looking like this anyway as the finish shrinks? Cheers! Hey, could you do me a favour? Can you measure how far the bridge guideholes are from the bottom of the bass? My bass has the channel for the ground wire but not the guideholes. Imtoying with doing ti mywelf and trying to get as many measurements as possible. Also, are they exactly 35" from the fretboard side of the nut? I believe the measurment someone gave me to the screwheads was exactly 35" but I'd love to lnow the lenght to yhe guideholes if you wouldnt mind. Thanks so much! Edited April 25, 2023 by lidl e Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mylkinut Posted April 25, 2023 Author Share Posted April 25, 2023 (edited) Yours looks ace! Thanks for the info, that's pretty much the same as I've used - three coats of sanding sealer sanded back, three coats of primer, four coats of colour (though I haven't yet had any runs so no sanding back - I've got a tiny bit of spatter I'm going to scrape off with a razor and add another coat), then I'm hoping for five/six coats of clear. Ultimately I want the finish to look aged in-line with the neck, so a bit of grain showing through should only add to that. And no worries, I've got 35mm on the MIJ body, and 40mm on my '77 P Bass measuring from the bottom edge to the centre of the screw holes - wouldn't surprise me if some of the difference is down to a bit of 70s manufacturing slop and the thick poly finish on the '77. For the scale length, I measured my '77 and my Jazz and both hit 35 inches from the centre of the screw holes to the fretboard side of the nut. To be fair, I've just sold a '71 P that had the bridge located about a half inch further away from the neck than normal - apparently they were just like that for a few years. I still managed to get it intonated using a regular BBOT bridge so you've probably got a bit of tolerance - but I know I'd want to get it right too! Edited April 25, 2023 by Mylkinut 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lidl e Posted April 25, 2023 Share Posted April 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, Mylkinut said: Yours looks ace! Thanks for the info, that's pretty much the same as I've used - three coats of sanding sealer sanded back, three coats of primer, four coats of colour (though I haven't yet had any runs so no sanding back - I've got a tiny bit of spatter I'm going to scrape off with a razor and add another coat), then I'm hoping for five/six coats of clear. Ultimately I want the finish to look aged in-line with the neck, so a bit of grain showing through should only add to that. And no worries, I've got 35mm on the MIJ body, and 40mm on my '77 P Bass measuring from the bottom edge to the centre of the screw holes - wouldn't surprise me if some of the difference is down to a bit of 70s manufacturing slop and the thick poly finish on the '77. For the scale length, I measured my '77 and my Jazz and both hit 35 inches from the centre of the screw holes to the fretboard side of the nut. To be fair, I've just sold a '71 P that had the bridge located about a half inch further away from the neck than normal - apparently they were just like that for a few years. I still managed to get it intonated using a regular BBOT bridge so you've probably got a bit of tolerance - but I know I'd want to get it right too! Cheers, my man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mylkinut Posted April 25, 2023 Author Share Posted April 25, 2023 No worries bud! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 20 hours ago, lidl e said: Hey, could you do me a favour? Can you measure how far the bridge guideholes are from the bottom of the bass? My bass has the channel for the ground wire but not the guideholes. Imtoying with doing ti mywelf and trying to get as many measurements as possible. Also, are they exactly 35" from the fretboard side of the nut? I believe the measurment someone gave me to the screwheads was exactly 35" but I'd love to lnow the lenght to yhe guideholes if you wouldnt mind. Thanks so much! The critical measurement is from fretboard face of the nut to the bridge and, according to the excellent Stewmac Fret Calculator, that is 35" to the centres of the rear fixing screws of a standard Fender bridge for a 34" scale bass - so yours is spot on. The distance from the holes to the tail is irrelevant in terms of the strings, tuning and intonation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 21 hours ago, lidl e said: My bass has the channel for the ground wire but not the guideholes. Imtoying with doing ti mywelf and trying to get as many measurements as possible Just a post-script...not sure what you mean here. The channel leading to the bridge earth wire hole is where the bare wire sits to make electrical contact with the bridge while still allowing it to sit flat on the bass top. The holes at the back are the bridge screw holes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lidl e Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 34 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: Just a post-script...not sure what you mean here. The channel leading to the bridge earth wire hole is where the bare wire sits to make electrical contact with the bridge while still allowing it to sit flat on the bass top. The holes at the back are the bridge screw holes. I understand that for sure. What i am saying is the body i bought has a predrilled channel from the control cavity to under the bridge for the ground wire. What it doesn't have that most aftermarket bodies have is the five holes predrilled for the bridge screws so i have to figure out where those go so i can get the placement correct for my bridge. I have a pretty good idea, but i want to get it as exact as possible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 45 minutes ago, lidl e said: I understand that for sure. What i am saying is the body i bought has a predrilled channel from the control cavity to under the bridge for the ground wire. What it doesn't have that most aftermarket bodies have is the five holes predrilled for the bridge screws so i have to figure out where those go so i can get the placement correct for my bridge. I have a pretty good idea, but i want to get it as exact as possible. Sorry - it's me being an idiot I was flicking through the posts on the tablet and thought your post was @Mylkinut's so I thought we were looking at a picture of your own bass!!!! Yes - the distance behind the bridge screw holes is still irrelevant and can be misleading. Go for the 35" to the screw centres - that will put the bridge in the correct place (as long as it's a Fender standard bridge). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lidl e Posted April 26, 2023 Share Posted April 26, 2023 8 minutes ago, Andyjr1515 said: Sorry - it's me being an idiot I was flicking through the posts on the tablet and thought your post was @Mylkinut's so I thought we were looking at a picture of your own bass!!!! Yes - the distance behind the bridge screw holes is still irrelevant and can be misleading. Go for the 35" to the screw centres - that will put the bridge in the correct place (as long as it's a Fender standard bridge). No worries! Thats why this place is great. Lots of people with lots of knowledge! I do ask a lot of questions as I'm fairly obsessive and want to get things right! Cheers, bud. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted April 27, 2023 Share Posted April 27, 2023 That looks more like sinkage if you sanded, applied filler then primer and sanded flat. Although the depth of it suggests it needed more work and primer, paint perhaps. Theres a bit of a dent in the upper horn. Something going on at the bottom. I would of sanded 320, filled anything 320 then 500 or 600. Applied primer and waited 2 or 3 days then knocked it back. Maybe you did that. But as said there some serious depth to the grain and imperfections showing. Should of been very noticeable at primer stage. No the depth of paint and clear coat is not enough to get rid of all the grain showing. Might improve it though. Instead of stripping it all as someone suggested just apply more layers till thick enough to knock out any imperfections. Though you will end up with a thicker coat which has pros and cons. Needs more colour not just clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mylkinut Posted April 27, 2023 Author Share Posted April 27, 2023 Thanks and yep, aware of the imperfections. I deliberately didn't fill any dents because I'm intending to knock some of the paint off around them; the neck and hardware are both quite worn so I don't want the finish to be in perfect shape. Might not work but hey ho. I'm going to carry on and see what I end up with, this is my first refin and being done when I can find the time so it's all a learning experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.gif.9ad672bb8b84505709f76b39c8c256ec.gif)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.