Stage monitoring

[Obrienp]

On 07/02/2023 at 16:22, Jakester said:

 

Well, if it's this one it definitely uses velcro to stick to the carpet on the MB cabs:

 

https://www.markbass.it/product/mark-stand/

 

I find that mine sometimes tips the cab too far back too, so it can fall backwards - I often end up propping it up against something. I guess if you position the cab further back it might tip less, but without the velcro/carpet I'd assume it would slide all over the place. It is pretty rigid though. 

Well, I’ve given the Markbass Tilt Stand a couple of tries and I have decided it’s not working for me and the BF One10. It put the cab in a great wedge monitor style position but all coupling between the cab and the floor was lost. This seemed to get rid of a large chunk of bass and make the mids very prominent. I think this would be less of a problem with a front ported cab but the One10 has the port on the bottom in portrait mode, so it just vented into the air rather than deflecting off the floor. I can see the tilt stand would work very well with Markbass cabs and combos in that fuzzy felt/carpet stuff, as they are front ported.
 

Anyway, the Tilt Stand will be listed shortly, if anybody is interested. Ditto the One10, as I have decided to go for a smallish tilt combo. I’ll miss the One10 but needs must. Next IEMs!

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

1 hour ago, Obrienp said:

Well, I’ve given the Markbass Tilt Stand a couple of tries and I have decided it’s not working for me and the BF One10. It put the cab in a great wedge monitor style position but all coupling between the cab and the floor was lost. This seemed to get rid of a large chunk of bass and make the mids very prominent.

In order to lose the coupling between the floor and cab the cab would have to be lifted at least 60cm off the floor. No bass was lost, it just seems that way because you're hearing mids and highs that you weren't before.

Quote

I think this would be less of a problem with a front ported cab but the One10 has the port on the bottom in portrait mode, so it just vented into the air rather than deflecting off the floor.

That doesn't make any difference either. The port frequencies are lower than those from the cone, making the wavelengths longer, so the port would have to be even further from the floor to lose coupling, at least 150cm. If you're running with the same EQ on the stand as you did before that explains the mid content being more than what you want.

[lemmywinks]

On 09/02/2023 at 14:31, Obrienp said:

I’m using a Warwick Gnome with this set up, so even more danger of it sliding off. It’s going to have to go on the ground but in cramped playing conditions there is a real danger of it getting trampled on. I have visions of a jack plug breaking off in the socket (I have had that happen with a pedal before), or worse the speaker socket on the amp getting mangled. I even considered an Ashdown Ant for the pedal board but over £300, for an amp with the same capabilities as my Warwick that cost half the price, seems excessive.

 

WRT your drink: one of those drink holders that clips on a mic stand?

 

 I used an Ikea Brada laptop stand with my old Markbass head, could tilt the cab at around 45 degrees with no issues. Hooks over the front of the cab, amp sits on the main bit and the little lip at the other end (where the front of the laptop is on this pic) stops it from falling off. Imagine it would be easy to cut down for the Gnome.

 

 

[Downunderwonder]

3 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

5 hours ago, Obrienp said:

 

In order to lose the coupling between the floor and cab the cab would have to be lifted at least 60cm off the floor. No bass was lost, it just seems that way because you're hearing mids and highs that you weren't before.

I wouldn't be too sure of that on this one. The BF has some oddball tuning in its description which makes me think it might be relying on the floor to cab bottom as an extension of the port.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Looking at a picture the port is so close to the rear of the cab that if that's happening it's minimal. As for the Hybrid Resonator, I don't know what it is. Possibly a dual chamber reflex, which would explain the port placement, and the description of what it does. Nonetheless for the space between the cab bottom and floor to act as an effective extension of the port it would have to be placed in the middle of the bottom.

[Obrienp]

14 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

In order to lose the coupling between the floor and cab the cab would have to be lifted at least 60cm off the floor. No bass was lost, it just seems that way because you're hearing mids and highs that you weren't before.

That doesn't make any difference either. The port frequencies are lower than those from the cone, making the wavelengths longer, so the port would have to be even further from the floor to lose coupling, at least 150cm. If you're running with the same EQ on the stand as you did before that explains the mid content being more than what you want.

Thank you for the explanation. I did play with the EQ to try and resolve the perceived tonal change but without much success. Good to know what is going on. I also experimented with my other cabs: a BF Two10 and an Orange OBC112. The effect on the tone was similar with the Two10 but not as extreme with the OBC112, which is what drew me to conclude the port position had something to do with the perceived tonal changes on a stand. Just shows that knowing the theory can be more use than trial and error!

[Obrienp]

13 hours ago, lemmywinks said:

 

 I used an Ikea Brada laptop stand with my old Markbass head, could tilt the cab at around 45 degrees with no issues. Hooks over the front of the cab, amp sits on the main bit and the little lip at the other end (where the front of the laptop is on this pic) stops it from falling off. Imagine it would be easy to cut down for the Gnome.

 

 

That’s really ingenious! Thanks for the tip. Unfortunately, being a bit impulsive, I’ve already pulled the trigger on a combo, still I can always return it, if it is not a significant improvement.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

Figuring out what's going on with just ones ears is daunting, even if you know the physics. That's where measurements come in. That used to be an expensive proposition, but not today. Download this to your phone: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dom.audioanalyzer

 

Set it to Sound Analyzer, 1/3 octave bands, C weighting, Slow weighting. Ideally you want to input a pink noise source into your amp. You can download a pink noise loop to your PC. With that you can see in real time the effect of moving the cab. The phone needs to be placed where your ears would normally be with respect to the speaker, and not moved during the testing. That's critical, as even a slight change in the mic placement will alter the result. http://ethanwiner.com/believe.html

[mcnach]

On 09/02/2023 at 10:53, Obrienp said:

The Markbass Tilt Stand arrived today. A quick try with the BF One10 at low volume suggested it might just work. I am not sure it would with a heavier cabinet, at high volume, without the Velcro attaching to the cabinet but the One10 is so light that it doesn’t seem to want to slide 🤞. It rests on the back edge of the cabinet, so I will put the whole assembly on my Auralex isolation pad, to stop any rattles. There is no way the amp head will stay on top of the cabinet given the angle of tilt. Trouble is it looks very vulnerable on the floor, especially if we are playing in cramped conditions. Perhaps I will have to put the head on my peddle board (Warwick Gnome) and use a long speaker lead: does that cause drop off, or latency issues?

 

Next task is to sort IEMs 😳.

 

 

If that doesn't, I have used one of these both with a MarkBass CMD121P combo and various stand alone cabs (not at the same time!). It folds flattish and it's light but sturdy. Around £20-25.

 

 

 

https://www.gak.co.uk/en/stagg-gas-4-2-amp-stand/36029

[mcnach]

On 18/02/2023 at 18:36, Obrienp said:

Well, I’ve given the Markbass Tilt Stand a couple of tries and I have decided it’s not working for me and the BF One10. It put the cab in a great wedge monitor style position but all coupling between the cab and the floor was lost. This seemed to get rid of a large chunk of bass and make the mids very prominent. I think this would be less of a problem with a front ported cab but the One10 has the port on the bottom in portrait mode, so it just vented into the air rather than deflecting off the floor. I can see the tilt stand would work very well with Markbass cabs and combos in that fuzzy felt/carpet stuff, as they are front ported.
 

Anyway, the Tilt Stand will be listed shortly, if anybody is interested. Ditto the One10, as I have decided to go for a smallish tilt combo. I’ll miss the One10 but needs must. Next IEMs!

 

Not sure you lost the coupling with the floor, you'd need to raise the speaker quite a bit more than what the stand does... but if now you have the more directional mids aimed at your head, it'll probably feel more middy but I'm pretty sure it's just due to the change in relative position between your ears and the speaker.