MOD Device (Dwarf/Duo/Duo X) owners' club - Tips, Ideas & Patches

[SamIAm]

41 minutes ago, MrDinsdale said:

Just wondering if anyone is using the Dwarf alongside other analog pedals?

 

I have some pedals, 2x preamps and 2x drives that I have no intention of removing. Stuff like the GT1000core and Stomp definitely have an advantage over this in the sense that they have 2 fx loops which give you way more options for wiring them up. Would be curious to see how people have wired it up.

Might be worth checking this thread over on the MOD forum where people share their various setups.

S'mant x

[Woodinblack]

I haven;t currently but probably will add my SY200 back at some point. however I didnt have it in an effects loop on the hx, it was just before the input, probably would do the same, or put it in the other channel and mix back in

[Baloney Balderdash]

As said I kind of count on buying the MOD Dwarf at some point in the future.

 

Not likely to be soon though, but when time comes to update my Zoom B1Xon and G1on it will most likely be the Dwarf that gets picked.

 

So I wanted to ask if any of you know the latency in milliseconds of the Dwarf?

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Woodinblack]

Hard to see what the actual values are, there are several statements, and calculations that show it should be 5ms, but could be up to 8ms. But it is hard to tell what is real or opinion on those forums, so probably one day I am going to have a latency measuring day, of measuring everything. 

[SamIAm]

17 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

As said I kind of count on buying the MOD Dwarf at some point in the future.

 

Not likely to be soon though, but when time comes to update my Zoom B1Xon and B1on it will most likely be the Dwarf that gets picked.

 

So I wanted to ask if any of you know the latency in milliseconds of the Dwarf?

From what I have been able to glean, it is single digit ms ... circa 8ms.  This MOD forum post has some results (that I do not fully understand!). Of note is that the user had their device set at 128 (bit I presume) sample size.  It is possible to run the Dwarf at 256bit samples, the disadvantage is an increase in latency ... but it reduces the CPU consumption ... handy when one is running a super complex pedalboard layout.

 

On a different (but hopefully useful) topic, MOD have an online playground to let you try out their GUI ... https://try.mod.audio/?v=1683140283 to see its power and if you like it (or not)

 S'manth x

Edited May 3, 2023 by Smanth

[Baloney Balderdash]

18 minutes ago, Smanth said:

From what I have been able to glean, it is single digit ms ... circa 8ms.  This MOD forum post has some results (that I do not fully understand!). Of note is that the user had their device set at 128 (bit I presume) sample size.  It is possible to run the Dwarf at 256bit samples, the disadvantage is an increase in latency ... but it reduces the CPU consumption ... handy when one is running a super complex pedalboard layout.

 

On a different (but hopefully useful topic) MOD have an online playground to let you try out their GUI ... https://try.mod.audio/?v=1683140283 to see its power and if you like it (or not)

 S'manth x

Well, with the sample buffer size, which is not the same as bit rate, it ought to be much less 8ms, more like just below 3ms or so at 44.1Khz sample rate, and even lower if the audio sample rate of the Dwarf is higher than that (close to just 1ms if the sample buffer size is 128 and sample rate is 96kHZ, double of that if the sample buffer size is 256): https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/buffers-latency/

 

Anyone know the audio sample rate of the Dwarf?

 

I think, though it differs some from person to person, that latencies above 10ms starts to get noticeable, so if one is using other digital pedals in their signal chain, which typically will have latency of just about 1ms, together with Dwarf, and if the latency of the Dwarf really is about 8ms, it could course issues.

 

Edited May 3, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[SamIAm]

16 minutes ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

Well, with the sample buffer size, which is not the same as bit rate, it ought to be much less 8ms, more like just below 3ms or so at 44.1Khz sample rate, and even lower if the audio sample rate of the Dwarf is higher than that: https://www.sweetwater.com/insync/buffers-latency/

 

Anyone know the audio sample rate of the Dwarf?

It is quoted as 48kHz. And I belive the 8ms is roundtrip latency, based on a pedalboard setup that routes the input directly to the output.

Interesting topic ... I imagine that different plugins will add aditional unwanted delays, I shall have to whack a scope on mine and see what the measured latency is for the pedalboard config I use ...

S'manth x

Edited May 3, 2023 by Smanth

[MrDinsdale]

Does the online demo gui allow for uploading clips to loop? Being able to use actual clean recordings of your bass etc to play with would be a game changer. 

[Baloney Balderdash]

3 minutes ago, Smanth said:

It is quoted as 48kHz. And I belive the 8ms is roundtrip latency, based on a pedalboard setup that routes the input directly to the output.

S'manth x

Looks like you were writing that reply while I was editing mine (I know a bad habit of not ensuring I actually said what I wanted to say before posting), so please look at the edit.

[SamIAm]

Just now, MrDinsdale said:

Does the online demo gui allow for uploading clips to loop? Being able to use actual clean recordings of your bass etc to play with would be a game changer. 

Not as far as I am aware  

S'manth x

[MrDinsdale]

10 minutes ago, Smanth said:

Not as far as I am aware  

S'manth x

Couldn't help but notice there are quite a lot of audible clicks and pops when enabling/disabling effects on the playground, guessing thats a quirk of running in the browser?

[Woodinblack]

57 minutes ago, Smanth said:

From what I have been able to glean, it is single digit ms ... circa 8ms.  This MOD forum post has some results (that I do not fully understand!). Of note is that the user had their device set at 128 (bit I presume) sample size.  It is possible to run the Dwarf at 256bit samples, 

128 or 256 samples not bits, all samples are 16 bit

[Woodinblack]

21 minutes ago, MrDinsdale said:

Couldn't help but notice there are quite a lot of audible clicks and pops when enabling/disabling effects on the playground, guessing thats a quirk of running in the browser?

haven't tried the demo, but the device has no clicks when enabling / disabling, unless there is a huge level change

[MrDinsdale]

Just now, Woodinblack said:

haven't tried the demo, but the device has no clicks when enabling / disabling, unless there is a huge level change

 

I assumed so, cheers!

 

[Woodinblack]

Tell you what though, the demo reminded its a good idea to record something on the dwarf, and put it in a loop so you can refine your effects.

And a great effect is taking the output of the audio to CSV to control the pitch of a harmonizer. Totally unmusical, but still a great effect - and reminds me of one of the things that you get with the dwarf that you got in the early days of synths - unliike, say the helix, where everything is thought out and musical, this lets you do stupid stuff!

 

[SamIAm]

2 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Tell you what though, the demo reminded its a good idea to record something on the dwarf, and put it in a loop so you can refine your effects.

And a great effect is taking the output of the audio to CSV to control the pitch of a harmonizer. Totally unmusical, but still a great effect - and reminds me of one of the things that you get with the dwarf that you got in the early days of synths - unliike, say the helix, where everything is thought out and musical, this lets you do stupid stuff!

 

S'manth x 😉

[SumOne]

The mod Dwarf looks like a great bit of kit (And Juno have just one in stock, £417). My dilema is this or Boss GT 1000 Core (which Scan are doing for £549). 

 

The thing that is edging me towards the Core is the long track-record of Boss for quality/reliability, and I'm pretty certain Boss will be around for years to come for updates/support etc which is possibly not the case for Mod. Have any Mod users here had reliability issues (other than the things I've read in this thread)? I have an MPC and DAWs that I use for processing Bass/Effects at home so the pedal is only needed for live use where reliability is probably the #1 thing I need.

[Woodinblack]

15 minutes ago, SumOne said:

The thing that is edging me towards the Core is the long track-record of Boss for quality/reliability, and I'm pretty certain Boss will be around for years to come for updates/support etc which is possibly not the case for Mod. Have any Mod users here had reliability issues (other than the things I've read in this thread)? I have an MPC and DAWs that I use for processing Bass/Effects at home so the pedal is only needed for live use where reliability is probably the #1 thing I need.

 

If you want just an effects pedal that you can rely on to do stuff using the normal sort of effects, you would be better off with the boss - it will retain its value, it will work flawlessly at all times, it will be hiss and noise free. If you want to experiment and play around with options and have some non standard effects or other noise generators, the mod is the one to go for. My mod has been perfectly reliable (although I have only gigged it once and group practiced with it twice) but you can get it into states of not producing any noise as you have set it up badly - my mod was not producing any noise at the practice, turns out my standard snapshot I had fiddled around with and removed the path to the amp! Other snapshots were fine.

As for future proof, when getting a unit rely on it being what you buy - never assume it will be any better. Line 6 are good at updates, when it comes to things like the helix, not sure about older stuff. I have had quite a few boss things that never had updates. The Mod, yes, the chance of mod being around in the future is less likely (they have gone down the tubes once), although you are not tied to Mod for updates as the software can come from other people. But again, that involces work on your part.

 

[SumOne]

6 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

 

If you want just an effects pedal that you can rely on to do stuff using the normal sort of effects, you would be better off with the boss - it will retain its value, it will work flawlessly at all times, it will be hiss and noise free. If you want to experiment and play around with options and have some non standard effects or other noise generators, the mod is the one to go for. My mod has been perfectly reliable (although I have only gigged it once and group practiced with it twice) but you can get it into states of not producing any noise as you have set it up badly - my mod was not producing any noise at the practice, turns out my standard snapshot I had fiddled around with and removed the path to the amp! Other snapshots were fine.

As for future proof, when getting a unit rely on it being what you buy - never assume it will be any better. Line 6 are good at updates, when it comes to things like the helix, not sure about older stuff. I have had quite a few boss things that never had updates. The Mod, yes, the chance of mod being around in the future is less likely (they have gone down the tubes once), although you are not tied to Mod for updates as the software can come from other people. But again, that involces work on your part.

 

 

Nice one, thanks for that. It looks like a great pedal but I think I'll play it safe and go with Boss.

[SamIAm]

An overview/review of the MOD Dwarf and the AIDA-X is a neural model player plugin.

 

[SumOne]

^^^

I like his videos, very informative. The latency is worth knowing and most reviewers don't go into that sort of detail. 8.6ms (@128 frames) is okay, 16.5ms (@256 frames) might be a bit much. Apparently 10ms is about where it's noticeable. 

[Woodinblack]

Gigged mine again tonight - it does react differently to different basses, I took the spector and it was much more raunchy than the Maruszczyk that I gigged with last time, but got the levels working well. Still love that I can use it for bass and keys at the same time.

I am beginning to get the idea of what I would like for additional footpedals for it - it is a bit of a pain changing patches and items within a patch, so need to work out the best way of doing that.

Also, if you have quite a big patch but you are only using a few controls, it is still worth assigning the other controls in case you need to change them live, seeing as they are easy enough to set.

[MrDinsdale]

I'm definitely still quite intrigued by the Dwarf. I only want it for FX, I'm incredibly happy with my Handbox head and Capo/Model FeT preamp combo.

 

The thing that hooked me on the GT1000 core was the parallel signal options etc. I do kind of find some of the fx, while they sound incredible lack the flexibility to do weird stuff and go off the beaten track. I'd love to experiment with some ambient delays and reverbs etc.

 

I've seen a few mentions that the Mod Dwarf is much better suited to noise rock and quirkier sounds, it kind of sounds perfect. Just wish it had more fx loop options. 

[SamIAm]

8 minutes ago, MrDinsdale said:

I'm definitely still quite intrigued by the Dwarf. I only want it for FX, I'm incredibly happy with my Handbox head and Capo/Model FeT preamp combo.

 

The thing that hooked me on the GT1000 core was the parallel signal options etc. I do kind of find some of the fx, while they sound incredible lack the flexibility to do weird stuff and go off the beaten track. I'd love to experiment with some ambient delays and reverbs etc.

 

I've seen a few mentions that the Mod Dwarf is much better suited to noise rock and quirkier sounds, it kind of sounds perfect. Just wish it had more fx loop options. 

Whilst the Dwarf is really sturdy and suits my needs for a multil f/x box (I can use input1 for my bass, input2 for another band members guitar/ukulele and generate a drum track using its midi and drum synth plugins) I see what you mean about the fx loop.

It is possible (as I think was mentioned elsewhere) to use Bass->Input1->Internal Signal Chain A->Output1->external f/x chain->Input2->Internal Signal Chain B->Output2->Amp(etc), it would be very nice to have one or two dedicated f/x loops like the GT-100 core or even the single send/return of the HX Stomp.

 

Having said that, I don't have any seperate pedals ... ALL of my f/x run in the Dwarf, so my pedalboard is tiny!  And using the AIDA-X neural modelling plugin I hope to be able to drop in models of some of the external pedals that I might want ... an octaver that tracks really low notes being an example.

 

S'manth x

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, MrDinsdale said:

 I do kind of find some of the fx, while they sound incredible lack the flexibility to do weird stuff and go off the beaten track. I'd love to experiment with some ambient delays and reverbs etc.

 

You can go very far off the beaten track, the only constraint is your imagination here, and maybe some CPU limit, but not something I have got to. I was using pitch to CV and then using the CV to modulate the delay time of an echo, and it didn't go as you would think as obviously the cv moves around a bit, and if you are using an analogue echo, turning the delay value pushes through the signal, which actually raises or lowers the output pitch, so it came up with some rather interesting effects. Not sure I can sneak that into mustang sally yet, but for my own home stuff it is fantastic!