ReeV0 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 (edited) deleted, problem fixed. now sounds fantastic! Edited January 18, 2010 by jjl5590 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardi100 Posted October 18, 2008 Share Posted October 18, 2008 [quote name='jjl5590' post='308928' date='Oct 17 2008, 09:28 PM']Hey guys, Finally got a working Profet 3.2, and thought i'd do a quick review of it. I am using it with a Warwick WCA 211 Pro cabinet. Pros: It looks great. It is very easy to use Sounds awesome Has a speakon output (which not many do for this price) Cons: Really my only concern is its volume. It is rated at 300W at 4ohms, and it is running at 8ohms with my one cab, so it should be putting out a minimum of at least 150W. It is not much louder than my 20W Stagg practice amp. It has more low end, but i feel this is because of more (bigger) speakers (the Stagg has a single 8"). The amp clips very quickly, and I have to have the gain nob at 1 o'clock. Any more and it will just clip like crazy. There is little volume change throughout the volume spectrum, and I feel it is just an underpowered head for the rated 300W (or 150W in my case). My school's Carlsbro Bass Bomber, with a single 15" speaker and rated at 125W is FAR louder than what I am getting. Resolution: I will most definitly buy another cab (a 4x10 probably) to increase speaker surface area and bring the impadence down to 4ohms. But in the long run, I cant see myself gigging with this amp for very long before upgrading it.[/quote] Mine was plenty loud with a 4ohm cab. Probably not the loudest 300w but i rehearsed and gigged it loads with no trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedontcarebear Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 (edited) I had one too and gigged/practiced with it, not the loudest amp ever, but with it being 300 watts at 4 ohms, it's never going to be, but I did run it at 8ohms at all times, usually via a Warwick 410. Oh and actually I just noticed you are using a WCA211, I used mine with the profet 3.2, and it could only just cope with band practice. Edited October 20, 2008 by thedontcarebear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeV0 Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 im thinking about getting the WCA 410 to go with it. What do you think of this cab? Someone once told me it lacked definition and was quite muddy. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
umph Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 i had a problem with my warwick head putting out alot less volume than it should but it turned out to be a loose connection, maybe you should get it checked out, or get a louder head ;p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedontcarebear Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 [quote name='jjl5590' post='310304' date='Oct 20 2008, 11:36 AM']im thinking about getting the WCA 410 to go with it. What do you think of this cab? Someone once told me it lacked definition and was quite muddy. cheers[/quote] Yeah, that is what I had, it is okay, but the pro versions (like the WCA211 you have) do sound better I think, but for the money, that Warwick cab can't be beaten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 My first real rig was a pro fet 3.2 and wca410. Definately spend the extra and get the 411. The 410 just doesnt cut the mustard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeV0 Posted October 21, 2008 Author Share Posted October 21, 2008 its not the money thats stopping me get the 411, its the weight. i really need it 30kg or under. could you please tell me what was wrong with the 410 (in your opinion)? im either gonna get that, or another 211 cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 The 410pro Just had no presence at all. the mids where just non existant, i couldnt hear myself in a band mix at all! The Studios ashdown mag sounds horrible too, but at least i could hear that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeV0 Posted October 21, 2008 Author Share Posted October 21, 2008 oh right, i was gonna buy the 410 over another 211 because of the more speakers (pushing more air) and it has a high dB rating, which made me think it was very loud. maybe i'll just buy another 211 after all then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted October 21, 2008 Share Posted October 21, 2008 Take your head to the Bass Gallery (or another shop) in London and try lots of cabs out I did this when buying my first rig many moons ago, but at Electromusic in Doncaster. Spent 3 hours there, played everything in the shop whether in my budget or not. Even took a bass playing friend to get a second opinion. Was great fun and you come away knowing you've made the right choice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeV0 Posted October 21, 2008 Author Share Posted October 21, 2008 i've already got a warwick WCA 211 Pro cab, so i want my second cab to be a warwick as well. that just leaves me with two choices, the WCA 410, or another 211 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardi100 Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Are you not interested in a 15" cabinet? I used one with my PreFet 3.2 and loved the sound. 15s and 2 x 10s go well together! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReeV0 Posted October 22, 2008 Author Share Posted October 22, 2008 well the warwick wca 115 cab is only like 98db, so its too quiet for me. the point of me getting a second cab is to make it quite a lot louder. i think im just gnna get another 211 cab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 By science, Getting another 2x10 is the thing to do (please Alex or Bill correct me if i get this bit wrong!) -Stacking them end on end will bring the speakers much closer to ear level, Increasing percieved volume, as well as the dispersion around the stage being much more even. And on a second note, If you bought a 410 or 115, Each individual speaker would be working under a different stress, for example (again, correct me if i get this wrong!) 300watts into two cabs, one 410 and one 210, They both recieve 150 watts of power, each cone in the 410 recieves 37.5 watts, where as each cone in the 210 will recieve 75 watts. Basically you wont get the most out of the 410 before you blow the speakers in the 210. Especially as your only using 300 watts. Hope that made sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protium Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 (edited) [quote name='ste_m3' post='312029' date='Oct 22 2008, 01:20 PM']By science, Getting another 2x10 is the thing to do (please Alex or Bill correct me if i get this bit wrong!) -Stacking them end on end will bring the speakers much closer to ear level, Increasing percieved volume, as well as the dispersion around the stage being much more even. And on a second note, If you bought a 410 or 115, Each individual speaker would be working under a different stress, for example (again, correct me if i get this wrong!) 300watts into two cabs, one 410 and one 210, They both recieve 150 watts of power, each cone in the 410 recieves 37.5 watts, where as each cone in the 210 will recieve 75 watts. Basically you wont get the most out of the 410 before you blow the speakers in the 210. Especially as your only using 300 watts. Hope that made sense![/quote] The power gets split between the 6 speakers not the 2 cabs. And getting more 10's is correct - 15's are rubbish Edited October 23, 2008 by Protium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 [quote name='Protium' post='312972' date='Oct 23 2008, 01:57 PM']The power gets split between the 6 speakers not the 2 cabs.[/quote] Are you sure about that? how would the amp "know" to send certain power etc? Im not being a cock, Just broadening knowladge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protium Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 [quote name='ste_m3' post='313206' date='Oct 23 2008, 06:52 PM']Are you sure about that? how would the amp "know" to send certain power etc? Im not being a cock, Just broadening knowladge! [/quote] You have to consider the entire setup as one circuit not as two separate cabs. Depending on the wiring (series/parallel) either the voltage or current will be split between speakers, but the power level remains the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moo Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Protium' post='313467' date='Oct 24 2008, 12:17 AM']You have to consider the entire setup as one circuit not as two separate cabs. Depending on the wiring (series/parallel) either the voltage or current will be split between speakers, but the power level remains the same.[/quote] The output voltage of the amp stays the same, but the current, and sound level increase with a lower impedance load. Also more drivers means higher efficiency due to larger surface area of tranducers to move the air. Two parallel wired (Normal Wiring) cabs of equal impedance and sensitivity will be twice the power output and twice as loud from the same amp. I agree with the above comments that the Profet 3.2 is underpowered, and the tone makes it difficult to hear in the mix with the rest of the band. I have a Profet 3.2 and two 8 ohm 12" cabs (Home built aguillar clones). I always struggle to hear myself in both bands in which I play. I have tried this head with both a 1x15 and a 2x10, and both were even quieter than my 12s. The rehearsal rooms I use have now bought £220 Ampeg BA-115 combos for each room. At our practice on Weds night I had the chance to A/B Listened to my rig and the Ampeg. The 100w into 1x15 Ampeg was slightly louder than my stack and (Supposedly) 300w Profet 3.2. The tone was not as low, but was clearer and less muddy than my cabs. As a result I was able to hear myself better than I ever have with the Profet with 1/3 the Power. Do yourself a favour - Dont waste any more money buying more cabs for the Profet - Trade it in for a decent combo if you want to carry less stuff and hear yourself. My Guitarist has a spare Trace 1x15 combo that I am trying next week. - I have a feeling the Profet will now be retired to bedroom practice duty only. Moo. Edited October 24, 2008 by Moo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempo Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 I'd like to know how other users of the Profet 3.2 have their tone/gain set, as I don't have any problem with volume. I'm driving a Hartke 2.5xl 2x10 (vertically alligned). My feeling is that your backing off the input gain so the clip light doesn't flash and/or using bass boost on the EQ. Pete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moo Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 (edited) [quote name='tempo' post='313629' date='Oct 24 2008, 10:45 AM']My feeling is that your backing off the input gain so the clip light doesn't flash and/or using bass boost on the EQ. Pete.[/quote] I appreciate that you are trying to help but your assumption is incorrect. My master control is permentantly set to 10. The input gain set to as high as posible before clipping - usually just over 6 on my active basses. This does mean that the light comes with louder notes. I have deduced that the light is set 3db below the actual audible clip point, and needs to be flashing on peaks to get the most out of this head. I can get a slightly higher level by putting a compressor in front of it as well to reduce clipping on peaks. (The compressor on the head is pretty useless, and as stated elsewhere only cuts in when your clipping anyway. I do not have the contour, bass boost, or bas eq turned up because they make it clip at an even lower level, and make it even more difficult to hear against the guitar and drums. I have been concerned for a while that I am always using this amp at a maxed out level, and still struggle to hear myself at gigs. A Bass tutor I used a while ago also had a Profet 3.2, and a Warwick 4x10 cab in his teaching room. When he saw I had the same head, he tentatively asked me what I thought of it, and agreed my feeling that it was underpowered. He also explained that he has to borrow his friends Hartke rig for anything other than quiet jazz gigs BTW. I felt both cheated and intrigued as to why the 100w 1x15 Apmeg BA-115 I tried the other night was both louder, and cut through better than my 300w rig. My cabs are are both 97db efficiency, making 100db when used together. The fact that a 100w amp is louder than my '300w' head means that I need at least an extra 9db to match the efficiency of the BA-115 cab. As far as I know, there are no 1x15 speakers with 109 db efficiency that I know of. 96-98db are typical figures for the lower powered 15s on the eminence website which lists Ampeg as one of its OEM consumers. I suspect that the Profet 3.2 is not outputting the advertised 300w and has a large built in saftey margin, with the preamp clipping well below the 300w level to preseve the output transistors from abusers. I am going to measure the output of the profet in the shed later this evening, and calculate the power output at clip level. - Watch this space. Moo. Edited October 24, 2008 by Moo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redroque Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 You have to present a 4 ohm load to get the full 300W, tho' even with a 210 ands 115 it didn't seem to do the business. I changed it for a Profet 5.1 - 500w in to 4ohm and a BFM Omni 10 (8ohm) and a Omni 10.5 (8ohm). Together it presents a 4ohm load and stacks of level! I set the input gain to just clipping (about 1 o'clock), comp on (useful limiter) and output any thing from 1/2 to flat out! I don't need any more as that's what the pa is for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protium Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 [quote name='Moo' post='313494' date='Oct 24 2008, 04:05 AM']The output voltage of the amp stays the same, but the current, and sound level increase with a lower impedance load. Also more drivers means higher efficiency due to larger surface area of tranducers to move the air. Two parallel wired (Normal Wiring) cabs of equal impedance and sensitivity will be twice the power output and twice as loud from the same amp.[/quote] I know... I was saying that the output power isn't necessarily split 50:50 between two cabs - you have to treat the whole setup as one circuit and that (depending on wiring) the power will be split between each speaker not split between each cab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moo Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Protium' post='313964' date='Oct 24 2008, 04:53 PM']I know... I was saying that the output power isn't necessarily split 50:50 between two cabs - you have to treat the whole setup as one circuit and that (depending on wiring) the power will be split between each speaker not split between each cab.[/quote] Sorry to be patronising. I was trying to add to the explanation for the benefit of the original poster. If Both cabs are 4ohms they both recive the same power. With a 300w amp and 2 4ohm cabs, a 1x15 will get 150w, and a 4x10 will get 150w. This means that the 15" driver gets 150w and each of the 4 10" inch drivers gets 37.5w because they are series / parralel wired in pairs to make 8 ohms for the cab. Any road up. I have the results of my shed measuring this afternoon: I turned up the head to the point where the clip light was just comming on and then measured the voltage with 2x 8ohm cabs conected in parallel. 1000Hz Sine = 29.4v into 4ohm cabs = 7.35A and 216 Watts 100Hz sine = 29.4v into 4ohm cabs = 7.35A and 216 Watts 50Hz sine = 28.4v into 4ohm cabs = 7.1A and 201 Watts Pink Noise = 17.8v into 4ohm cabs = 4.45A and 79 Watts So when the clip light comes on this head is delivering 216 watts. It has a 33% safetey margin built in. To be fair to Warwick, most the problem I have hearing myself are probably caused by my cabs, which do not have much prescence or high end. Time to try out some new cabs. Moo. Edited October 24, 2008 by Moo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protium Posted October 24, 2008 Share Posted October 24, 2008 [quote name='Moo' post='314045' date='Oct 24 2008, 06:11 PM']Sorry to be patronising. I was trying to add to the explanation for the benefit of the original poster. If Both cabs are 4ohms they both recive the same power. With a 300w amp and 2 4ohm cabs, a 1x15 will get 150w, and a 4x10 will get 150w. This means that the 15" driver gets 150w and each of the 4 10" inch drivers gets 37.5w because they are series / parralel wired in pairs to make 8 ohms for the cab. Any road up. I have the results of my shed measuring this afternoon: I turned up the head to the point where the clip light was just comming on and then measured the voltage with 2x 8ohm cabs conected in parallel. 1000Hz Sine = 29.4v into 4ohm cabs = 7.35A and 216 Watts 100Hz sine = 29.4v into 4ohm cabs = 7.35A and 216 Watts 50Hz sine = 28.4v into 4ohm cabs = 7.1A and 201 Watts Pink Noise = 17.8v into 4ohm cabs = 4.45A and 79 Watts So when the clip light comes on this head is delivering 216 watts. It has a 33% safetey margin built in. To be fair to Warwick, most the problem I have hearing myself are probably caused by my cabs, which do not have much prescence or high end. Time to try out some new cabs. Moo.[/quote] Don't think of it as 2 cabinets - If the cabs are wired together to the same output they become a single circuit. [attachment=15151:circuit.JPG] In your example (assuming 300W input and all 8ohm speakers), each 10" speaker would get 50W and the 15" 100W In other words the 4x10" receives 200W, the 1x15" receives 100W, a ratio of 66:33 not 50:50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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