lownote Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) I have been with SBL since it started six years ago, pretty much. Scott trickles out short lessons, a live show on Facebook and tasters from courses for nothing - or a sign up and no more, but all the serious stuff is behind the Academy wall. IMHO you won't find a more comprehensive learning resource on the planet than the Academy and for the money it is crazy value. Hours of expert video learning on every aspect of bass from beginner to grown-up, plus guest seminars and lessons from a growing faculty of other bass gods - even Gary Willis now! - plus you can send Scott a video of your stuff for him to evaluate. By comparison I have paid close to £100 for three hours of personal tutition from local tutors who taught me sweet fanny adams, frankly. But there are downsides to SBL:[list=1] [*]I have found a lot of equally useful material for free on other sites like Talking Bass.net. [*]Scott has taught himself to be a thoroughly professional and charismatic presenter but at times he tries too hard to appeal to all ages and his attempts to dress, act and talk like an American 18 year old (when's he's actually nearly 40) do grate after a while. [*]The forum community (or Campus as its called) can be very helpful, especially for beginners. However, it's very earnest, a bit twee and heavily regulated by 'campus managers'. Not everyone's cup of tea. [*]SBL is increasingly commercial. Scott has already made his first million and is clearly determined to make more and it won't be long before the marketing gets too much in your face. [*]Don't expect to be spoon-fed. This is like uni, not school. To some extent you have to figure out for yourself what you need to learn, find the stuff and then organise your learning. Some would say that's an upside not a downside, unless you need spoonfeeding. [/list] So, in a nutshell, my advice is if you're new to bass and seriously want to make a go of it, think of SBL as an online university of quality yet cheaper than any real uni by a factor of 100. But if you've already got your stuff together it's not worth joining, just watch out for his freebies in case anything comes up. And if he's trailing a must-have course you can't miss, do the 14 day free trial and take copious notes over a wet weekend. Edited to be less rude to people. Edited February 3, 2017 by lownote12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 [quote name='lownote12' timestamp='1485615962' post='3225336'] I have been with SBL since it started six years ago, pretty much. Scott trickles out short lessons, a live show on Facebook and tasters from courses for nothing - or a sign up and no more, but all the serious stuff is behind the Academy wall. IMHO you won't find a more comprehensive learning resource on the planet than the Academy and for the money it is crazy value. Hours of expert video learning on every aspect of bass from beginner to grown-up, plus guest seminars and lessons from a growing faculty of other bass gods - even Gary Willis now! - plus you can send Scott a video of your stuff for him to evaluate. By comparison I have paid close to £100 for three hours of personal tutition from local tutors who taught me sweet fanny adams, frankly. But there are downsides to SBL:[list=1] [*]I have found a lot of great, even more useful material for free on other sites like Talking Bass.net. [*]Scott has taught himself to be a throughly professional and charismatic presenter but at times he tries too hard to appeal to all ages and his desperate attempts to dress, act and talk like an American 18 year old (when's he's actually nearly 40) do grate after a while. [*]The forum community (or Campus as its called) is mostly inhabited by people you'd go out of your way to avoid at the Bass Show, but if you like music oriented Boy Scouting it and its members can be very helpful, especially for beginners. It's heavily regulated by 'campus managers'; let's just leave it there in case I upset someone. Anyone who's been in a cult will find it easy going. [*]SBL is increasingly commercial. Scott has already made his first million and is clearly determined to make more and it won't be long before the upselling gets too much in your face. [/list] So, in a nutshell, my advice is if you're new to bass and seriously want to make a go of it, think of SBL as an online university of quality yet cheaper than any real uni by a factor of 100. But if you've already got your stuff together it's not worth joining, just watch out for his free stuff in case anything comes up. And if he's trailing a must-have course you can't miss, do the 14 day free trial and take copious notes over a wet weekend. [/quote] Nicely put. I don't think I'm too out of hand, but I got pulled in-line by one of Scott's friends who hangs off his shirt-tails, on more than one occasion. I was told something like "keep it nice for the children". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No. 8 Wire Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) [quote name='lownote12' timestamp='1485615962' post='3225336'] I have been with SBL since it started six years ago, pretty much. Scott trickles out short lessons, a live show on Facebook and tasters from courses for nothing - or a sign up and no more, but all the serious stuff is behind the Academy wall. IMHO you won't find a more comprehensive learning resource on the planet than the Academy and for the money it is crazy value. Hours of expert video learning on every aspect of bass from beginner to grown-up, plus guest seminars and lessons from a growing faculty of other bass gods - even Gary Willis now! - plus you can send Scott a video of your stuff for him to evaluate. By comparison I have paid close to £100 for three hours of personal tutition from local tutors who taught me sweet fanny adams, frankly. But there are downsides to SBL:[list=1] [*]I have found a lot of great, even more useful material for free on other sites like Talking Bass.net. [*]Scott has taught himself to be a throughly professional and charismatic presenter but at times he tries too hard to appeal to all ages and his desperate attempts to dress, act and talk like an American 18 year old (when's he's actually nearly 40) do grate after a while. [*]The forum community (or Campus as its called) is mostly inhabited by people you'd go out of your way to avoid at the Bass Show, but if you like music oriented Boy Scouting it and its members can be very helpful, especially for beginners. It's heavily regulated by 'campus managers'; let's just leave it there in case I upset someone. Anyone who's been in a cult will find it easy going. [*]SBL is increasingly commercial. Scott has already made his first million and is clearly determined to make more and it won't be long before the upselling gets too much in your face. [/list] So, in a nutshell, my advice is if you're new to bass and seriously want to make a go of it, think of SBL as an online university of quality yet cheaper than any real uni by a factor of 100. But if you've already got your stuff together it's not worth joining, just watch out for his free stuff in case anything comes up. And if he's trailing a must-have course you can't miss, do the 14 day free trial and take copious notes over a wet weekend. [/quote] I'm not going to disagree with anything you've said on the negative side there, I don't see it as my place to defend sbl or promote it. I'd just add to point 2 that I find the paid for materials less 'buzzy' and hip than the youtube stuff and that suits me fine. Although I haven't actually studied a course for a while due to time limitations. On point 3, the campus. I think that's a fair perspective (ie your perspective!), but the campus forum has a great deal more female representation and indeed members from all over the world, and yes even children (some of whom have incredible chops). So for me, its not unreasonable for a commercial platform to moderate in way that keeps the bulk of people on board. In my experience most people are trying hard to be nice and be supportive, I haven't seen that many moderated threads - in fact I've seen more on here. That said, people wanting another bass forum for late middle aged men to discuss class D watts etc will be disappointed. I've seen people sign up to SBL who I would swear haven't found the links to all the lessons and seminars. Why someone would pay $168 a year just to use the forum is beyond me - although potentially they're just people who have breezed through for the free trial. Each to their own though. Luckily you can sign up for the free trial and find out for yourself though! Edited January 28, 2017 by No. 8 Wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lownote Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) Hehe, lowfrequencykiwi i do believe. how are you? Edited January 28, 2017 by lownote12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No. 8 Wire Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) [quote name='lownote12' timestamp='1485621592' post='3225399'] Hehe, lowfrequency kiwi i do believe. how are you? [/quote] I'm good mate, I hope you are doing well! Are you managing to survive out here without access to 20 courses on the value of arpeggios, or indeed an SBL bass strap made by monks living in the high Andes with matching T-shirt, hoodie and socks? Edited February 18, 2017 by No. 8 Wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lownote Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) Well it's hard but not too bad. For some unknown reason I can still get into the campus despite having left SBL two months ago. So I am haunting the corridors just to upset people - even changed my users name to match my new shade-like status! Incidentally, in my post above I did say 'most' of the Campus members were exquisitely avoidable... you aren't 'most', just to be clear. Plus my troll-talk probably says far more about me than those I malign Edited January 28, 2017 by lownote12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No. 8 Wire Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 To be fair I avoid bass shows altogether, so I knew it couldn't be me. A new darker lownote lurking in the shadows? I'll need to do some sleuthing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lownote Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) If you're a Hairy Porter fan you won't need to look far when looking for a ghost Edited January 28, 2017 by lownote12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No. 8 Wire Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 [quote name='lownote12' timestamp='1485623750' post='3225421'] If you're a Hairy Porter fan you won't need to look far when looking for a ghost [/quote] I typed that into a search engine and your either the dirtiest old man in Norfolk (which is saying something!) or a fan of real ale. Anyway, I've checked out your posts and I have to say the quality of them has improved since you 'left' The subtlety of your trolling is so light a touch that it is barely perceptible. Although you did break ranks with your new policy in describing Zon and Overwater as 'mid-ranged' instruments. You should try that on here or talkbass just to check on the reaction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lownote Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 (edited) No really they are... What's bottom end? Squier? Sire? What's top end, Fodera? Price wise that's a range between say 300 Trumps and 25000 Trumps. You won't get a custom Fodera for much less than 8000. Whereas a top end Zon is around 4-5000 and a bespoke Overwater can be had for less than 3000. When's that not midrange? lol Edited January 29, 2017 by lownote12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No. 8 Wire Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 [quote name='lownote12' timestamp='1485627724' post='3225467'] No really they are.. Fodera mostly 8<25k$ ; Overwater couple of grand (in Mays), Zon 4-5k (in Trumps!). When's that not midrange? lol [/quote] Sounds interesting... you should start a thread on this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted January 28, 2017 Share Posted January 28, 2017 [quote name='lownote12' timestamp='1485627724' post='3225467'] No really they are.. Fodera mostly 8<25k$ ; Overwater couple of grand (in Mays), Zon 4-5k (in Trumps!). When's that not midrange? lol [/quote] BARGAIN (compared to the €70,000 starting price for these http://sauvageguitars.com/opm3.html) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lownote Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Wooly mammoth tusk nut? Damascus steel bridge? Wow, there can only be so many guitar playing hedge fund managers in the world... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No. 8 Wire Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 [quote name='skej21' timestamp='1485638753' post='3225564'] BARGAIN (compared to the €70,000 starting price for these http://sauvageguitars.com/opm3.html) [/quote] Been hit with the ugly stick! Neck heel transition looks dog rough too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 [quote name='lownote12' timestamp='1485627724' post='3225467'] No really they are... What's bottom end? Squier? Sire? What's top end, Fodera? Price wise that's a range between say 300 Trumps and 25000 Trumps. You won't get a custom Fodera for much less than 8000. Whereas a top end Zon is around 4-5000 and a bespoke Overwater can be had for less than 3000. When's that not midrange? lol [/quote] It has me totally confused when you hear/read of people talking about CAD/CAM mass produced basses sold for £/$1500 as top of the line, premium quality instruments. I recall an SBL Web conference event when we had a "lesson" with Anthony Wellington. Someone asked about his EQ settings. His response was "I never change it. It's totally flat. I don't pay $10,000 for a bass to spend time messing about with the EQ. There were a few folk rather stunned by that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lownote Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) And of course a 25,000$ Anthony Jackson doesn't even have knobs of any sort, let alone EQ - the pickup goes straight to the amp. Can't quite see the issue you hint at, No.8. IMHO nowadays you can get a great sounding, well finished bass for £350 (Sire v7). If you want fittings that feel like oiled chocolate and superb wood then upgrade the electronics in a Hohner B Bass VI, secondhand for £250. If you want Name plus well crafted bit and bobs then add a grand or two. If you want to make people think you've won the lottery then buy a Fodera Empreor II with poplar burl top wood (my personal dream machine) and add another 6k to that. But as Scott says, if you can't play a set-up Squier you're not likely to sound better on a Fodera. So the whole idea of cheap, mid range and boutique has little relevance to the noise you personally make, and not a huge amount to the bass in your bedroom. If I stuck a Fodera butterfly logo on the headstock of my last Hohner VI I would be astonished if anyone who didn't know the Fodera range of shapes and types would question its place in a rack of Foderas, despite a 40-fold price difference. Edited January 29, 2017 by lownote12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No. 8 Wire Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 Well I think you've said it all there lownote the twelfth. Just to keep slightly on topic, the key thing I like about SBL is that in the main it's all about actually playing the bass and not so much going on about the gear. Yes , we all get sucked down that rabbit hole sometimes, but i'd say the ratio of discussion between music/playing and gear on SBL is about the reverse of what it is here and in the other place. I'm not begrudging people their foderas or whatevers, if I could play like Antony Wellington I'd want a tool that could show off all my ability too. But buying one ain't going do much for me except amplify my mistakes in crystal clear hifi. Not to mention make me look like a tool and invalidate my home insurance. To me, too much of bass and guitar culture is a mirror image of golf. A whole industry dedicated to sucking in tired old gits into buying sh*t they don't need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lownote Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 I agree with you entirely, and admit guilt, octoplus. In my case an inability to play talented bass, as against reasonably well informed bass, has led me to an interest in the equipment. It's a good deal more fun, and easier, to get to know about the workings, fondle the woods, have a stab at luthery and enjoy the thrill of the chase on eBay than practise scales. I suffered just the same in a string of past obsessions: golf, clay pigeon shooting, photography, astronomy..... zzzzzzzzzz. That's part of why after 6 years I left Scott's playpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 (edited) ... and not even a gold watch as a leaving present?! Maybe this would be more suitable: Edited January 29, 2017 by Grangur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmeDunk Posted January 29, 2017 Share Posted January 29, 2017 [quote name='lownote12' timestamp='1485615962' post='3225336'] But there are downsides to SBL:[list=1] [*]I have found a lot of great, even more useful material for free on other sites like Talking Bass.net. [/list] [/quote] So I went for a look at talkingbass.net but at first glance it did not struck my as special. Which useful material do you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lownote Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 (edited) I didn't say special. Just useful. For instance Mark does a specific lesson on walking a blues shuffle. Scott doesn't. There are other instances. I'm not for a moment saying there are sites more comprehensive than SBL, just that there are other competent learning resources around which may tick your boxes better at your particular stage and level. Edited January 30, 2017 by lownote12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmeDunk Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Did not mean to offend your opinion about talkingbass or to defend SBL (I am not a member) I was just asking out of curiosity. Cheers for replying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lownote Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 No offence taken for one moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lownote Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 [quote name='Marty Forrer' timestamp='1485375099' post='3223516'] Someone mentioned trying to keep up with the young cats that are killing it. Why? Do you want to be a bass superstar? To be a regular gigging bassplayer does not require you to "kill it" .... it requires you to play with taste, tone and time. When I was younger I went through the usual phase of learning Jaco, Rocco Prestia, etc. Then I realised I never used all those chops in a live situation. So I refocused onto guys like my inspiration, Lee Sklar. I found the less I played, the more work I got. In fact I stole a weekly jazz residency off a guy who was "killing it" because the rest of the band (keys, sax, trumpet, drums) wanted someone who laid down the chord outlines and kept the bottom end happening. These were guys at the top of their game, but they wanted a BASSplayer, not a bass soloist. [/quote] This should be etched into the entrance portal of every bass school. IMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OmeDunk Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 [quote name='lownote12' timestamp='1485770259' post='3226453'] This should be etched into the entrance portal of every bass school. IMHO [/quote] So true. [quote name='lownote12' timestamp='1485769699' post='3226450'] No offence taken for one moment. [/quote] Glad you didn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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