DunRockin Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) Turns out that those fab Russ Stableford bass lines in The Love Affair's cover of Everlasting Love were in the original Robert Knight version and played by, of all people, legendary Norbert Putnam. Got me to wondering if anyone might know if that notable chorus bass descent in Everlasting Love - the 2 note 'chord', lower to higher note pinging (not the octave) has any [i]exact[/i] (ie[i] not [/i]a standard single note descent line) precedent or if Putnam effectively invented it. The obvious precedent might be from Jamerson, but I don't know of anything quite like it on any Motown stuff. Any thoughts, guys? Edited May 16, 2015 by DunRockin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 That run down is pretty standard technique and used in everything since Bach, and it probably wasn't new then. I would bet that both bass players were reading written lines in their respective sessions. We play this in the cover band. Goes down a storm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunRockin Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 I can imagine - great song. Yep, but though the particular form of the descent seems so [i]likely[/i] to have been well used, decades after first hearing it I've never heard this distinctive form of it used prior to this track on a pop/rock/'soul' track - all the stranger since it disguises/enhances such a common chord sequence so well. Herbie Flowers used a variation on a later (and similar - nothing wrong with sticking to the formula - lol) Love Affair hit 'Day Without Love', but the very fact it's so distinctive makes any precedent to it's 'first' appearance conspicuous in its absence, as it were. Also - though co-writer/gtr player Mac Gayden could easily have arranged it, it doesn't seem altogether improbable that the original players created their own parts. I'm an old timer now and a long term fan of melodic post Macca/mid 60s bass parts, but as I say, I've not heard that distinctive descent used prior to the Everlasting Love track. Just hoping someone has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m3VFmc4y5U Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) To me the arrangement sounds scored out for the full studio Orchestra, I doubt musicians were making up there own parts. Keith Mansfield was the Arranger and MD/Conductor. At the time he was a very busy guy, writing music for TV and arranging and MD'ing for a few various artists at the time. He was known for his very precise scoring of arrangements. But as you say, Dunrockin, maybe not altogether improbable, well at least for the Rhythm section. A great tune and very well played by all. EDIT - Sorry, just read your post again. I was talking about the Love Affair version. Edited May 16, 2015 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunRockin Posted May 16, 2015 Author Share Posted May 16, 2015 (edited) Indeed, that great 'orchestral' arrangement by Mansfield and production by Mike Smith making for a superior cover of the original, though as I originally mentioned Stableford's bassline on the UK version was a direct read-over from Putnam on the Knight original... To get back to my orig post though - while I'm pretty knowledgeable on these matters I'm hoping someone might know of a pop/rock recorded predecessor to that distinctive chorus '2 note chord' descent pattern - otherwise Putnam (or possibly Gayden as writer, potential arranger) stands as first instance thereof. (It's odd with the ongoing 'continuum' aspect of riffs/licks - for example - lots of people dismiss Peter Hook's 2 string drone parts as no great innovation/invention, but no one ever comes up with a concrete, indisputably recognisable example that precedes them, other than some unsubstantiated ref to an unnamed, and probably apocryphal jazz-fusion track Hook would certainly never have heard... he just invented them....) Edited May 16, 2015 by DunRockin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brucew Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Interesting post, nice to see this song get a mention, albeit brief, 'Everlasting love' is a great bit of 60's 'pop', fantastic bassline too, l think you're probably right about the bassline over the chorus, unique at the time, puts a great slant on a simple chord progression, what also helped IMO was that classic 60's plectrum style that Russ had (l'm a big fan of that) Loads of energy from the rhythm section, Clem Cattini on drums ! ? Good point you make about Peter Hook, and fair too, tho l would suspect that Lemmy may have done a bit of 'drone' stuff before Hook ? but he's earned his stripes, been there done it etc, played some catchy lines in an original style. BTW 'DunRockin' , l've been playing 'Everlasting love' for donkey's, and l've always played 3 note's to every chord on the chorus, and l've always thought it sounded OK, surprising how differerent players hear the same song ? irregardless of ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacey Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 What actually happened from what I was told is is the record company would not let the band play the song and insisted on using their own session players, claiming the band were not tight enough to record. In Truth it was about cutting royalties, the band got sweet FA other than to play it live, one session fee and the record companies pockets the rest. A very crafty move that saved them a lot of artistes royalties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Really? Who told you that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunRockin Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 Re the session player/fees aspect - I'm sure I found a far wider ranging web page (union/fees issues) that cited the above record company 'attitude' re the recording of the song. And an earlier band version of the song may or may not have played a part in using session players - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everlasting_Love#Overview It's not as though the use of session players was uncommon.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DunRockin Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 [quote name='brucew' timestamp='1432069738' post='2777933'] Int BTW 'DunRockin' , l've been playing 'Everlasting love' for donkey's, and l've always played 3 note's to every chord on the chorus, and l've always thought it sounded OK, surprising how differerent players hear the same song ? irregardless of ability. [/quote] Indeedy. The disturbing thing about hearing all these 'isolated' bass tracks that have appeared now is how much technique and how many notes get lost in the mix, notwithstanding some (wonderful) hard stereo 60s mixes allowing for sharply panned bass line clarity: eg Les Hurdle's session playing on a stereo 'Baby, Now That I've Found You' by the Foundations.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Love Affair were not very proficient. Steve Ellis' timing is all over the place. Time was money, and the studio players were used because they got the job done in 2 takes. Many bands got ripped off, mainly by their management, but using studio players to avoid paying the band royalties is a new one on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacey Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 (edited) It was more the US market export issues and mechanical royalties issues for performers on record material. Those on recorded material received a performance royalty on USA sales unless they were employed as a session player. Hence why a lot of recordings were made with session players for artistes as opposed to having a set band, T-rex where another that paid session players such as Herbie Flowers to record, money was money. As to the notion the band where not tight enough is bunkem, they were regarded as a very tight band on the scene and were quite well played in on the scene. They got offered a chance to record ever lasting love after Marmalade refused it, they tried several bands who did not want the track, Love affair took it on, the band agreed the deal would get them better live money so went along. I suppose it did, but at the cost of royalties payouts. Mick was a very good bass player in his own right, just dont buy a car off him... Edited May 20, 2015 by spacey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted May 20, 2015 Share Posted May 20, 2015 An interesting (although long) read here. Talking about (in places) "Everlasting Love" and the general MU position towards use and payment for session musicians back then. http://www.muhistory.com/?p=1089 Slightly off topic, but regarding Russ Stableford. His son turned up on a thread regarding "Everlasting Love" a while back. http://freakytrigger.co.uk/ft/2006/07/the-love-affair-everlasting-love/ He also posted up a YouTube link of his dad playing on "The Muppet Show". Bass comes in at 01:22. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UVAAgcjIgFA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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