Polyrhythms vs crossrhythms

[velvetkevorkian]

If the different parts are in different time sigs but the same tempo (ie 6/4 drums and 4/4 bass, two seperate parts that line up every 24 quarter notes) that is a polyrhythm.

If the different parts are in the same time signature but with different rhythmic groupings (ie a bar of 4/4 with a guitar playing straight 8ths and bass playing triplet 8ths) that is a crossrhythm.

That's how I've always worked it, but it seems a lot of people use these terms differently. Any comments?

This was sparked off by [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=343517"]this thread[/url] over on T*lkb*ss.

[Alun]

I would think of polyrhythms more as different subdivisions of the same beat - a triplet over 2 8th notes being the easiest example and a cross rthym as the same values but accented differently eg one part playing in 4/4 while another accents every third note for example. So the opposite of what you said

To be honest, the two get used interchangably so my definition may not be right but that's how I see them.

Cheers,
Alun

[fragility]

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='25577' date='Jul 1 2007, 12:38 PM']If the different parts are in different time sigs but the same tempo (ie 6/4 drums and 4/4 bass, two seperate parts that line up every 24 quarter notes) that is a polyrhythm.[/quote]

I'd class that as what is typically called a polymetre. As Alun has said, a polyrhythm, is more like...say you've got one part in 4/4 and another part that's 5/4...but you squish that 5/4 into the 'space' of that 4/4 bar, so that they each repeat after the same length of time (so theoretically, that "5/4" is really like haveing 5/5 notes if that makes sense)..that would be a 5:4 polyrhythm

I like to think of it like this
[font="Courier New"]1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 +
1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + [/font]

See how both patterns repeat at the same point?

[i][b]EDIT: That formatting worked out on my preview...just going to try and fix that

EDIT 2 : Meh, can't be bothered./..copy and paste those numbers into notepad if you can be[/b][/i]

Edited July 4, 2007 by fragility

[velvetkevorkian]

I'm pretty comfortable with the definitions and use of polyrhythms/crossrhythms/whatever, I was just curious to see which terminology people used since everyone seems to think I have it the wrong way around. In fact, everyone else has it the wrong way round

[The Funk]

That's the trouble with some musical terms. If you understand it to mean something different to the person you're trying to communicate with, then you're just better off explaining it the long way.

[lukeward2004]

I Agree - its like trying to explain Enharmonic Equivalents to a chipmunk with Alzheimers :/

[bassbloke]

I believe they are one in the same thing

Here are some great examples that I managed to pull off by tapping on my desk, thus irritating the hell out of my work colleagues.

[url="http://www.justjazz.com/discussion-hypermail/Nov-96/00000255.htm"]http://www.justjazz.com/discussion-hyperma...96/00000255.htm[/url]