1976fenderhead Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 Hi, is there any risk in using a bass with a guitar amp? I'm planning to split my signal to 1 bass amp+cab and 1 guitar combo and have both on simultaneously... also, the bass amp being 350W, what do you reckon should be the wattage of the guitar combo to get an equivalent power and volume? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 The guitar amp might explode. Well, maybe not literally but you're likely to damage the speaker. A 50W valve guitar combo should manage fine against a 350W solid state bass amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidbass Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 I'd recommend that you use a crossover of some sort so that you aren't sending the low frequencies to the guitar amp, you will most certainly damage the speaker at some point if you're playing at gig/practice levels. Are you using it for distortion purposes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 The bass has no more or less output than a guitar so you can't destroy it unless it is cranked and you whomp away on the low strings. Keep it turned to low to moderate volume and it'll work but it'll just sound cr*p... unless you are trying to get an overdriven sound. Tom Petersson of Cheap Trick used bass and guitar amps with his 12ers but he had separate outputs for different pick-ups etc. (never got my head around if that could actually make any difference). It has been asked, what is the purpose of the guitar combo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted May 18, 2007 Author Share Posted May 18, 2007 (edited) I'm starting a band with just bass, drums and vocals and I've recorded a few song demos already. I'm taking DFA1979's tone as a starting point, although songs don't sound like their stuff at all, just the tone... I tried lots of gear models to find what would work and I've settled with gate, compressor, EQ, fuzz and chorus going to bass amp and cab. But I find it would sound better with more mid and high range, basically, the sound I get when sending non-distorted sound to a guitar amp model and using the amp's distortion... Also, would help the stereo image to have an additional amp... So I'm trying to find how I could do this... I don't want to, for example, use an octaver and send an octave up to the guitar amp... I don't want to have any notes that I didn't pluck myself so to speak, not to mention the tracking problems I'd get with all the chords I'm playing... I'd also rather use a normal bass instead of one with piccolo strings for example (maybe that would keep the guitar amp safe but I'd sacrifice a lot of low end)... How could I sort it out with a crossover, are they rack-mount or smt? Edited May 18, 2007 by 1976fenderhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acidbass Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 I'm not sure if you can get good pedal crossovers....I'm sure there are a few out there somewhere though. A rackmount compressor would sort out your problem, you could remove all the low end below, say, 100hz, and then you could drive the guitar amp harder to get your desired distortion without risking speaker damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 I'm not sure that using a guitar amp would create any problems, providing you are using an amp with the headroom. I've used a bog standard Marshall 4x12 guitar cab for 23 years without any problems, so the speakers should be able to stand up to it. I think (and I stand to be corrected) that bass frequencies make greater demands on the power supply, so if you're pushing the amp hard you might run into problems there. Having said that, I've done a gig with a 100w guitar combo before, which didn't seem to suffer from any ill effects. Maybe rolling off the bottom end could be an alternative to a full blown crossover though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gypsymoth Posted May 18, 2007 Share Posted May 18, 2007 you will not damage the amp. you could damage the speaker - which in turn could damage the amp, as an arced voicecoil can wreak havoc on a transformer. that being said, I carefully used a quad of celestion 65 watt guitar speakers with my 200 watt head for quite a while, no issues. low bass settings, moderate volume. of course last guy I told that too went and smoked a quad of speakers, sooo something like an eminence delta pro 12 will handle bass and/or guitar duty quite well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted May 18, 2007 Author Share Posted May 18, 2007 (edited) Thanks all, well from this and personal conversation with another kowledgeable guy, here are my conclusions: The guitar amp will act a bit as a low end filter, as it's not tailored to those frequencies, so most of them will not go through and that will protect the speaker from damage. As for the few that go through and are still below normal guitar frequencies, those might in extreme conditions of volume and bass level damage the speakers from excessive vibration, but since the bottom will be covered by the bass amp, those will be rolled off on the guitar amp anyway, so there should be no problem... As for damage to the amp itself, there should be none at all... But let me know if you disagree... Edited May 18, 2007 by 1976fenderhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spikyhedgehog Posted May 19, 2007 Share Posted May 19, 2007 Not all amps will remove the hamful frequencies and these can generally can hurt speakers, especially when/if you hit hard and cause the amp to clip. Why not try a crossover? They aren't insanely expensive and that way there will be little or no way to damage the amps with normal use. Or even a unibass which has a dedicated guitar amp output. Also, if you're looking for more distingused trebble, output into the PA you use and use that to add a bit more kick. They should be able to handle a full range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted May 19, 2007 Author Share Posted May 19, 2007 [quote name='Spikyhedgehog' post='2346' date='May 19 2007, 06:32 PM']Also, if you're looking for more distingused trebble, output into the PA you use and use that to add a bit more kick. They should be able to handle a full range.[/quote] yeah, I thought of that too, but if you mean straight from the pedals, then I would have to use the fuzz for that too since I wouldn't have the guitar amp's distortion. I'll have to see how it sounds... As for the Unibass, the problem is I believe that output sends an octave up signal, which is not what I want... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebasshead Posted May 21, 2007 Share Posted May 21, 2007 I read somewhere (I think it was an article on vintage Celestions) that it's the rubbery roll surrounds of the speakers that'd take the damage because guitar speakers aren't built for the back-and-forth excursion that dedicated bass speakers require. Therefore they come under more stress and ultimately fail. The article also said that some of that cone-breakup sound was sought after by guitarists and contributed to the vintage sound. What you could do is a similar trick to what Rickenbacker used to do in the 60's and 70's. They wired a 0.0047mfd capacitor in series in the bridge pickup of the 4001's and early 4003's. This cut out lots of the lows from that pickup and was done because a lot of bass amps at the time weren't able to handle lots of lows. Rather than do that on your bass which would affect the sound going to both amps what you could do is wire in a capacitor (pennies from Maplins) into the cable you're going to run to the guitar amp. Chris Squire (I'm sure you know of, famous 4001 player) used to run his 4001 into a bass rig and Marshall guitar set up so you'd be mimicing that same set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted May 22, 2007 Author Share Posted May 22, 2007 [quote name='stevebasshead' post='3612' date='May 21 2007, 02:33 PM']What you could do is a similar trick to what Rickenbacker used to do in the 60's and 70's. They wired a 0.0047mfd capacitor in series in the bridge pickup of the 4001's and early 4003's. This cut out lots of the lows from that pickup and was done because a lot of bass amps at the time weren't able to handle lots of lows. Rather than do that on your bass which would affect the sound going to both amps what you could do is wire in a capacitor (pennies from Maplins) into the cable you're going to run to the guitar amp. Chris Squire (I'm sure you know of, famous 4001 player) used to run his 4001 into a bass rig and Marshall guitar set up so you'd be mimicing that same set up.[/quote] That sounds interesting... so how would I go about wiring it in the cable? What would I solder the capacitor ends to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxblood Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 [quote name='1976fenderhead' post='4467' date='May 22 2007, 04:48 PM']That sounds interesting... so how would I go about wiring it in the cable? What would I solder the capacitor ends to?[/quote] You place it in the positive ('hot') signal line of the guitar cable. Easiest way to do this (assuming the capacitor is physically small enough) is to solder one end of the cap to the tip of the jack plug and the other end of the cap to the signal line of the cable. Doesn't matter which end of the cable you fit it into, or which way round you solder the cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebasshead Posted May 22, 2007 Share Posted May 22, 2007 [quote name='Oxblood' post='4562' date='May 22 2007, 06:50 PM']You place it in the positive ('hot') signal line of the guitar cable. Easiest way to do this (assuming the capacitor is physically small enough) is to solder one end of the cap to the tip of the jack plug and the other end of the cap to the signal line of the cable. Doesn't matter which end of the cable you fit it into, or which way round you solder the cap.[/quote] You beat me to it I'm sure the capacitor will fit, it should be small enough once you chop the legs down a touch. All I'd add is to wrap some insulation tape around the legs of the capacitor to avoid shorts, but I'm probably teaching you to suck eggs here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted May 22, 2007 Author Share Posted May 22, 2007 (edited) [quote name='Oxblood' post='4562' date='May 22 2007, 06:50 PM']You place it in the positive ('hot') signal line of the guitar cable. Easiest way to do this (assuming the capacitor is physically small enough) is to solder one end of the cap to the tip of the jack plug and the other end of the cap to the signal line of the cable.[/quote] Er... ok, so which is the signal line of the cable, the core or the net around it? And what part of the plug do I use, please describe how it looks or smt? Edited May 22, 2007 by 1976fenderhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebasshead Posted May 23, 2007 Share Posted May 23, 2007 The core is the signal carrying wire (i.e. positive, or "hot"), the mesh carries the negative back to complete the cirtuit and also acts as a shield around to the core to prevent radio frequency interference. So you'd unscrew the plug, desolder the core wire from the central post and solder the capacitor in between the end of the core wire and the post you've just detached it from. Hope that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976fenderhead Posted May 23, 2007 Author Share Posted May 23, 2007 [quote name='stevebasshead' post='5068' date='May 23 2007, 12:49 PM']The core is the signal carrying wire (i.e. positive, or "hot"), the mesh carries the negative back to complete the cirtuit and also acts as a shield around to the core to prevent radio frequency interference. So you'd unscrew the plug, desolder the core wire from the central post and solder the capacitor in between the end of the core wire and the post you've just detached it from. Hope that helps [/quote] Right, so it would just be in line... seems too flimsy though, as at those 2 points the whole signal would be passing by the 2 tiny contacts of the cap... seems too easy to break or fail, but I'll definitely consider and have a go at it later... Thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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