where do I stand?

[paul torch]

Hello all, as usual I'm after a bit of advice.

Some back history first.

A purchased an Ampeg PF350 from GAK in feb. It started cutting out (common problem) so I called them and ask what options were available to resolve the issue. I decided that I would prefer my amp to be be repaired as they knew what the issue was rather than having an instant replacement from one that they had in stock. I went for this option as I wanted to know that I would have an amp that worked rather than risking another amp having the same problem.

A couple of weeks passed and I called them to see how the repair was going. They told me that Ampeg were shipping a brand new amp to me. I reminded them that this was not the option we had agreed on and would still prefer to have my amp fixed. They explained to me that they had sent the amp back to Ampeg for repair but that Ampeg had decided to send me a new amp instead. The guys at GAK explained to me that Ampeg had sorted out the problems with the PF350s and that my new amp would be fault free.

In the meantime I had bought (2 weeks old, second hand but still under warranty) a Genz Benz FCS-112T.

The amp arrived early this week so I had a bit of a play at home through the rig. Not high volume but everything seemed fine.

I took it to rehearsal and after about five minutes playing there was a faint whiff of smoke, the cab started making farting sounds and the fault light lit up on the amp. I switched everything off immediately.

I plugged the amp into another cab to check it and the old problem of it cutting out was there. I ran a different amp into into the GEnz Benz cab and it was just farting away.

I don't think I can have overloaded the cab as it's rated 200w 8ohm and the PF-350 is supposed to output 200w at 8ohm. The gain was at about 1 o'clock and the volume at about 3 o'clock, bass and treble where at 2 o'clock and the mid at 10 o'clock.

I'm sure sure GAK will refund me for the amp but where do I stand regarding the cab? It seems to me that it was the faulty amp that blew it. Are ampeg responsible?

Cheers,

Paul

[xgsjx]

I would think that if someone has sold a product that has damaged your property (the cab), then they are responsible for either repair or replacement of the damaged items.
You would deal with the seller & the seller would then take it up with the manufacturer.

If it was I, I'd be getting a different amp.

Edited April 13, 2013 by xgsjx

[paul torch]

Cheers.

Yeah, been wondering what may be a good alternative.

My main concern is the cab. Need to get is sorted in the next 2 weeks for a up coming gig.

[Lozz196]

Well I had the same sort of thing with a PF500 (my second one, the first one had no issues at all, but I stupidly sold it).

So knowing that I wanted an amp that for one I could trust, but secondly that sat in the same sort of place in the mix as Ampeg, I went Markbass.

Now my tonal bass amp god was always Ampeg, but I`m so pleased I went down the Markbass route. Yes, on it`s own it`s cleaner and less warm than Ampeg, but in the mix it just works so well - as does Ampeg.

So I`d look out a Little Mark 2 or 3 on here. Cab-wise, there`s a Barefaced Compact up for grabs on here.

Or, if you decide to stick with Ampeg, there`s a PF500 with two of the SVT210AV cabs going at the moment. That would be a nice rig.

Edited April 14, 2013 by Lozz196

[paul torch]

Thanks Lozz.

Would the seller of the amp cough up the money for the cab though?

[Musky]

I seem to remember this has come up before, with an amp taking out two cabs. AFAIR it is the manufacturer that is liable for damage caused by a fault in their product, and if I remember correctly there was a satisfactory outcome.

Edit: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/193392-liability-for-damage/page__fromsearch__1"]Here's the thread.[/url]

Edited April 14, 2013 by Musky

[paul torch]

Cheers Musky. Just waiting for the phone lines to open. Here's hoping.

[paul torch]

ok, update time.

Regarding the amp. I've been offered a Little Mark 250 Black Line Head as a replacement. Anyone had any experience of these?

Regarding the cab. The shop are going to contact Ampeg tomorrow to see what they have to say about liability.

[Lozz196]

No experience of those actual amps Paul, but I`d look at the power and see if it`s enough. 250 at 4ohms, 150 at 8ohms. Though as you were intending to use the 350 into a 112, and hardly suspect that you were intending on running it flat out, 150 should be fine (matched with an efficient cab of course).

The Markbass Blackline looks to just be lower powered versions of their current amp heads, plus built in Indonesia - there was a thread re these a while back:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/200542-markbass-black-line-250-head/"]http://basschat.co.u...-line-250-head/[/url]

Edited April 14, 2013 by Lozz196

[paul torch]

thanks Lozz

[xgsjx]

Have a look here...

http://sogahub.tradingstandards.gov.uk/

http://www.findlaw.co.uk/law/consumer/consumer_protection/139.html

If that's all GAK are offering you, tell GAK you want a refund for the amp so you can buy what you want. It's been less than 6 months since purchase.

As for the cab, it might be wise to (try to) get in touch with Ampeg (good luck with that, as nothing on their website works unless you're in the US).
I'd also be asking GAK if they can lend you a cab as a good will gesture until things are sorted out. After all, you bought both items off them & now neither work.

[paul torch]

Cheers mate. It would seem that the manufacturer or importer are liable. GAK are going to contact Ampeg for me tomorrow.

I don't know where I would stand on them lending me a cab as it wasn't purchased from GAK.

[xgsjx]

I'd assumed you had.
Still worth asking them how they can help & if not, ask them to ask Ampeg if they would be willing to help.

It'll be interesting to see how the customer service side of these 2 companies are? I'm hoping they're both good.

[paul torch]

same here.

been thinking about bunging a bit more cash into the amp for a fender 350 head. any thoughts?

[xgsjx]

i've never used a Fender head.
Try a few different one's, but I'm with Lozz on the Markbass heads though.

[paul torch]

I thinking about the output power in that price range, and am concerned the the Mark Bass won't be enough for those occasions when I need to plug in an extension cab which is what I was eventually intending to do with the PF350.

Decisions, decisions.

[0175westwood29]

bhnb /,.mnbv xz[quote name='paul torch' timestamp='1365944850' post='2046251']
I thinking about the output power in that price range, and am concerned the the Mark Bass won't be enough for those occasions when I need to plug in an extension cab which is what I was eventually intending to do with the PF350.

Decisions, decisions.
[/quote]

but if your doing gigs which will need an extension cab will you not have pa support?

andy

[Lozz196]

[quote name='paul torch' timestamp='1365943945' post='2046243']
same here.

been thinking about bunging a bit more cash into the amp for a fender 350 head. any thoughts?
[/quote]

Good call. Fender amps sound much like Ampegs to me, warm, rich tones, maybe a bit more on the lows.

Check out the Fender Cabronita Precision here - the amp in the background is a Fender, gives a good idea of how they sound:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH9u9aOOiNM

[xgsjx]

You'd need to try one, but don't get caught up in the wattage of an amp as it means little on it's own.
There's a few folk on here who seem happy enough with the older LM250 & the TC RH amps which are about the same in wattage.
Ask GAK if you can try the LM250 & if you can return it if it doesn't suit.

[paul torch]

[quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1365949188' post='2046321']
bhnb /,.mnbv xz

but if your doing gigs which will need an extension cab will you not have pa support?

andy
[/quote][quote name='0175westwood29' timestamp='1365949188' post='2046321']
bhnb /,.mnbv xz

but if your doing gigs which will need an extension cab will you not have pa support?

andy
[/quote]

I thinking more about onstage sound if I have to compete with a volume happy guitarist. I know I'll have monitors most of the time but can't always guarantee that. I suppose it depends on the gig.

[paul torch]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1365949812' post='2046333']
Good call. Fender amps sound much like Ampegs to me, warm, rich tones, maybe a bit more on the lows.

Check out the Fender Cabronita Precision here - the amp in the background is a Fender, gives a good idea of how they sound:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KH9u9aOOiNM[/media]
[/quote]

Mmmm. Liking the sound a lot. Cheers Lozz.

[paul torch]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1365951459' post='2046360']
You'd need to try one, but don't get caught up in the wattage of an amp as it means little on it's own.
There's a few folk on here who seem happy enough with the older LM250 & the TC RH amps which are about the same in wattage.
Ask GAK if you can try the LM250 & if you can return it if it doesn't suit.
[/quote]

I tried a TC RH 250 in the shop when I bought the PF350 and noticed it seemed to be a lot louder. Both were going through an 8ohm cab.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='paul torch' timestamp='1365953863' post='2046417']
I tried a TC RH 250 in the shop when I bought the PF350 and noticed it seemed to be a lot louder. Both were going through an 8ohm cab.
[/quote]
'tis why you need to try.
The RH 450 puts out about 150w at 8Ω, but it's loud. My LMII puts @ 350w at 8Ω & it's loud too.

If you're liking the Fender sound, try one out. It might just be the answer.
I'm liking the sound of that P bass, just don't dig the looks at all.

[Lozz196]

Same here, don`t go a bundle on the looks, but the sound............

Sure a lot of it is down to the amp being used though. I`ve always liked Fender bass amps - used a fair few, and the tone is great.

[paul torch]

Ok, time for an update:

Ampeg?Louder claimed that their amp can't have damaged the cab so I had to send it back to Fender for an inspection. Fender instantly said that they would replace the speaker under warranty. Cool!

GAK gave me a discount on the Fender Rumble 350. Cool!

Really don't feel like having to deal with Ampeg?Louder again.


So, I'm after a new bit of advice here.

Thinking about buying a second cab to go with the rig. My worries are this: The amp is rated at 200w @ 8ohms, the cab is 200w 8ohm. If I'm just using the one cab then it's being pushed to it's maximum handling capacity if I crank it up and then if I start adding blended pedals into the mix am I correct that I am in danger of pushing the cab too hard? If I was to buy a second cab rated at around 500w 8ohm would this be ok to use with the 200w cab? Does it mean that 175w would be going to each cab? Is a 500w cab unnecessary and should I be looking at something around 300w. Or should I sell my current cab and get 2 matching cabs instead.

Just want to make sure I don't make an unwise purchase.

Cheers,

Paul